Jonathan Panozzo from Lime and Unraid, Updates and a Look Ahead to 6.9 – HGG440

Our guest this week was Jonathan Panozzo, the CMO/CSO with Lime Technology, Inc. headquartered out of Anaheim, CA, and the makers of Unraid. You can find more on Unraid at https://unraid.net/.  We talked about how Unraid and its community is responding to the global pandemic and any effect it might be having (good news there). We caught up with Jon since the last time he was on and looked forward to what is coming to Unraid in the very near future. We also took questions from the Unraid forums. Link below.   I think you will enjoy the show.

Full show notes, transcriptions, audio and video at http://theAverageGuy.tv/hgg440

Join Jim Collison / @jcollison and Mike Wieger / @WiegerTech for show #440 of Home Gadget Geeks brought to you by the Average Guy Network.

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Podcast, Home Gadget Geeks, Unraid, Jon Panozzo

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Find the thread about the show and the question asked here in the Unraid Forums – https://forums.unraid.net/topic/90734-unraidhome-gadget-geeks-live-show/?tab=comments#comment-842181

March 19, 2019 appearance of Jon on HGG – https://unraid.net/blog/unraid-home-gadget-geeks

Follow Unraid on Twitter at https://twitter.com/UnraidOfficial

ODROID – H2 – https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h2/

Folding at Home – https://foldingathome.org/

Jim Collison  [0:00] 
This is The Average Guy Network and you have found Home Gadget Geeks show number 440 recorded on April 9 2020.

Jim Collison  [0:22] 
Here on Home Gadget Geeks we cover all your favorite tech gadgets that find their way into your home news reviews, product updates and conversation all for the average tech guy. I’m your host Jim Collison broadcasting live from the average guy TV Studios here, Mike a super windy, Bellevue Nebraska like hitting holy cow today. Something’s coming. I think they’re talking snow for Easter here.

Mike Wieger  [0:42] 
Right? I mean, we live in from Snow like 70 degree days and now apparently snow again. I don’t know how all that comes together. But it’s that’s Nebraska for you. If you don’t like the weather, wait 10 minutes.

Jim Collison  [0:52] 
It’s exactly right. Of course. We’ll post the show with world class show notes and you’ll want to catch the show notes will be some good ones out there at theAverageGuy.tv Don’t forget, you can also join us live on our mobile app and streaming both on Android and iPhone. Maybe you just want to listen to us. I mean, you can find us in any podcast app too. But if you just want to listen to us, and actually this is the best way if you want to listen, live into the stream, just put it on your phone, you never know when you’re going to need it. Just like the Bud Light that I have in case of an emergency. You never know when you’re going to need it. So get that download at HomeGadgetGeeks.com i didn’t i didn’t even Mike I should have had the prop.

Mike Wieger  [1:28] 
Right You didn’t.

Mike Wieger  [1:30] 
You’ve taken over my role of having emergency we’re here on

Jim Collison  [1:34] 
the emergency beer fridge right there.

Mike Wieger  [1:36] 
In case of emergency again, air quotes, emergency beer friends, to their friends, guys. Don’t let him fool you.

Jim Collison  [1:42] 
break glass. Of course, you can download the app Home Gadget geeks.com we’ve been you’re probably listening to this. Maybe some of you are listening to us because you heard of this podcast through the Unraid forums. Thanks to Spencer who spent a bunch Time promoting us this week. But John Panozzo is back with us. He was here about a year ago. JOHN, I want to I want to say I think is around a year ago. Is that sound right? Yeah. About a year. Yeah. And we just had the best time with you. Let me just say that was super fun. And I think I asked you at the time, if I asked back, you’d say, what would you say? And you’d say yes. And so he did. And so welcome back to Home Gadget Geeks.

Jon Panozzo  [2:23] 
Absolutely. I had a blast last time as well. Looking forward to tonight.

Jim Collison  [2:26] 
Good to have you above him. And over this way. On my side. Of course, Tony Rayner Tony is a champion, Tony, like I got to say this, I’m just gonna say it publicly because you’re so good. You are the Home Gadget Geeks champion in social and around the world. Nobody promotes us on a consistent basis and enjoys what we do more than your so Tony. Thanks and welcome to Home Gadget Geeks. Oh, thanks. Good. Good to have you on and good to be here. We uh, we’re going to talk some Unraid and of course, john, I think it’s kind of hard to get around the fact that in April 2020 are in the midst of this COVID-19 pandemic crisis going on around the world. It’s affecting everybody. This has been one of the weird things about this, this pandemic, and I guess that’s what the word pandemic means, but is that everybody’s experiencing the same thing kind of at the same time. Now, that’s not totally true, right? It’s going in waves. But for the most part, especially here in the West, and in Europe, we’re all kind of going through this thing together, which is really kind of odd as we think about what’s going on. You guys are it Unraid? You guys are kind of distributed around. How is it affecting you guys? And is it having is it having much an effect on your workload or your developers or the community? Give us an update?

Jon Panozzo  [3:42] 
You know it not too much. We do have one of our new hires that is actually stuck in Vietnam right now because he can’t get back into the country. And he’s was touring the world and checking out all these different countries. And then this happened. I’m like, you couldn’t have picked a worse time to go on a world tour. You really couldn’t have Like anytime the last 10 years, and probably anytime in the next 10 years, you’re going to be fine this year. And that sucks. But thankfully, you know, he’s a remote worker, he’s able to do what he needs to do. And he’s in a beautiful place. Vietnam is absolutely gorgeous. Some of the pictures he’s shown us is just breathtaking. But from a company standpoint, not not too bad. You know, honestly, I think that a good majority of the people that use unbraid are techies that are already working from home. And if anything, this gives them more time to Dink around with their servers and try to get things more optimized. So, you know, we’re really not seeing a huge impact to the business as far as sales go or anything like that. But yeah, our community is definitely affected just like everybody else in the world. And we’ve got plenty of folks out there that that either are infected or know someone that’s infected. So it’s it’s a scary time. But thankfully, one of our community developers a guy that goes by the handle of squid, I, Andrew, he has done an amazing job of promoting the use of two really awesome applications built into Unraid that our Docker containers actually, that help with finding a cure, finding a vaccine. Basically, if you guys are familiar with SETI at home, folding at home buying any of those types of apps, all it is is a research project where your computer just downloads tons of these jobs locally. And then it treats this giant mesh network of computers as a giant supercomputer, figuring out and rendering these proteins and 3d models so that researchers, scientists, doctors can analyze it and try to figure out a way to beat this thing. So he promoted it pretty aggressively. It’s like, if you go to our community apps plugin, it’s the first two containers you’ll see on the top there, we pushed out a big notice to everybody so that they could see it. And there’s just tons of people in the Unreal community that are helping. So for everyone out there that’s doing that, thank you. And if you’re not go into community apps right now, download those containers and help find the cure.

Jim Collison  [5:47] 
Let’s do it. If you’re not a part of the community, and you’re joining us, maybe like I said, maybe you came in through the announcement on the forums there. We do have a Home Gadget Geeks team. So if you want to join that 243306 folding at home, too. Again, 243306 get you in the team? I think Mike since last week and a little bit later in the show, maybe I’ll show the stats on that. I think we picked up five or six or seven last week in there. I think I counted 19 or something along those lines in that group.

Mike Wieger  [6:15] 
Yeah. 19. And man, some of our top users are like killing it, too. We got we added a bunch of people. And you can tell people are adding in like, Oh, hey, I got an extra GPU over here. I got extra CPU over here because all sudden, certain people are making like drastic jumps. in the standings as we go. It’s been a lot like it’s a fun little race. And we have a conversation going over in Discord. And I think every morning everyone’s checking in with, okay, I got two GPUs run and I got three or four and we’re all having some friendly competition. So if you haven’t joined, I’m actually running the folding at home. Docker container on my own raid, I’m actually monitoring it, the great part, you guys will notice you can monitor it from a different computer. So you can use the folding at Home app if you have it set on a different computer. So I run it on this rig right now cuz even more powerful GPU here. So I run it here and on Unraid. I’m monitoring both from the advanced view of fully at home so I can go and check anytime I want how my Unraid box is doing currently, you guys are just in it for the fun. It’s got five hours and 41 minutes left for a job that’s gonna give me 132,000 credits. I just run one GPU, I run a 1060 on the Unraid box, is how I is what I run with it. Not that

Jim Collison  [7:19] 
we’re competitive at all,

Mike Wieger  [7:21] 
or competitive at all. I’m just letting you know that’s what we’re

Jim Collison  [7:24] 
no it’s pretty great. SPX labs in the chat says, We lost john, we’ll get him back here in a second SPX lab says can’t leave the Unraid folding team. No worries, no worries, I suppose you can. You can stay with it. We don’t we don’t really care. If you’re on our I mean, we do. We’d love to have you on our team. But we just want you to do with it

Mike Wieger  [7:45] 
on it. Who cares what team you’re on. We just do as a team because a lot of our members hadn’t joined it at all. We totally get that unreal has their own team that a bunch of different YouTube so just get on it and be on it and that’s the main

Jim Collison  [7:56] 
Tony, you jumped in on this thing yet. Have you have you decided To join us in this space.

Tony Raynor  [8:02] 
Now if you see my Twitter feed, I have a never ending list of honey do projects and

Jim Collison  [8:09] 
All right, well, well. Well, let’s, we’ll let you off the hook on that one. Um, john, are you familiar with the Unraid team is a pretty large Do you track that at all for this?

Jon Panozzo  [8:18] 
Huge I actually sent in the private chat here links to both our folding at home and the blink teams that we have. Yeah, they’re, they’re pretty big. They’re pretty big. And Eric, one of our developers, who also happens to be, I guess, our Midwest data center in his basement has just a ton of servers and multiple thread Ripper rigs that are just, I mean, his house. He didn’t have to turn the heater on in this house. Let’s just put it that way. I mean, he’s just pumping out the cycles on this thing. So yeah, we’ve got a ton of people and we’re very appreciative of everybody that’s helping with this thing. Yeah.

Jim Collison  [8:47] 
No pressure to move we don’t want you to we’re just excited about that going on. I really kind of hope, john that we we find something that’s helpful and then I’m kind of hoping that comes back through Tony, do you think if they do find Something on that and then it would come back through with a blog post or something we do. would you think? You think that might happen?

Tony Raynor  [9:07] 
Yeah. I think there’s already like, say some experimental vaccines for Corona out there already. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Oh, now say anywhere, there’s money to be made. I did pharmaceutical research for 10 years.

Jim Collison  [9:24] 
Well, I, I just hope, like john Biggs, who’s talking to me, he’s like, Hey, I sure hope we hear about, like, if it does, if this does help, I think it’d be super great to hear. I know, they’d be afraid to say something because then you know, maybe because, you know, before this took off with with with COVID. I mean, they were trying to do cancer research with it with Parkinson’s, cancer, Parkinson’s, some of those kinds. And you know, they were like 20 20,000 40,000 something and it went to like 400,000 when COVID came up. So, anyways, we hope we hear about it and so So, john, thanks for doing that if folks, so they’re new to Unraid, maybe they’re setting up an unrated server, they they just go to where do they go to get that Docker to be able to do this.

Jon Panozzo  [10:10] 
So if you’ve already got the plug in called Community apps installed on your server, you just need to click on that apps tab. And those containers are going to be promoted right at the top. If you don’t have it, just go to Google type community apps Unraid. And it’s the very first search result you’ll find the plug in and how to install it. It’s very simple.

Jim Collison  [10:27] 
Yeah, that’s a that’s a sweet, little, sweet little app on there, because it kind of puts everything together for you. Right?

Jon Panozzo  [10:33] 
Yeah, I mean, it’s also kind of a testament to how we as a company kind of grow the product because that wasn’t even originally designed by us. That is the work of a guy in the again in the community by the name of squid, Andrew. And he’s an awesome guy. And we built the way we built Docker supporting the Unreal, originally, to be quite honest, was not built with an app store in mind. It was more of you add these template repos. And it was all this kind of complicated and it didn’t have like the friendly App Store interface to it. But it was built in such a way that we knew we could do that eventually. Well, before we even get a chance to write a line of code of it, this guy squid comes out says, I got it. I got it, guys. And he’s been maintaining it ever since. And he’s just so so important to us. Because you know, every app that someone wants to add in there, he’s reviewing it, he’s going through making sure you’re doing due diligence against it, making sure it’s listed correctly, making sure it’s being supported correctly. So you know, it’s one thing to just say, Hey, this is just an aggregate of all the Docker containers out there. But this is somebody who’s actually taking the time to curate that and present it in a way and make it really easy for people to take advantage of. So squid, I love you, brother.

Mike Wieger  [11:37] 
I agree. I didn’t know that. Okay, so squid. I’ve seen him in the forums all the time. I didn’t know he was the one who built it. But he really liked it from from a new user perspective, someone who installed on right. The thing I love about community applications, is it let me get into Docker in a very friendly way. I had never built a Docker container. I’ve never done any of that. But ever since I’ve done that, like okay, this, that got me that dip my toes in the water and then I started to explore It gave me the I needed and the confidence yes to kind of go out and do amount. So, man, yeah, I applaud squid for putting it in there because that really let me dive into Docker deeper than I ever would have if I had never had just an intro to it. But I’ve really actually not I’ve never had to fundraise because they’re all they’re all the best things you need our NCAA. It’s a I would say I would call it an essential first step to installing generated getting community applications up and running. I

Jon Panozzo  [12:25] 
couldn’t agree more Mike

Jim Collison  [12:26] 
Spencer says about 4000 spots spread across the teams. And then Michael says he uses downtime to build an unrated server. So Nice job, Michael on that running, both folding at home and the Rosetta. By the way, I should just say too, there are Windows apps available. I’ve got it running my GPUs are in other machines now. They’re not in my Unraid server. So in my Unraid server is now very powerful and it for me it was better to put a Windows installed on Windows boxes, get it running on those four GPUs that I have in my windows boxes and make them available that way world community grid as also announced a COVID project. So that’s awesome. SPX says community apps is absolutely amazing. And it’s a must have and I agree. Oh, and by the way, Andrew says he’s blushing.

Jon Panozzo  [13:13] 
That’s what Andrew z is Squid.

Mike Wieger  [13:16] 
Squid out here. That’s fantastic.

Jim Collison  [13:20] 
Well, we appreciate the community here on Home Gadget Geeks, we’re kind of all about the community, really, we’ve been together again, if you’re new to us, we’ve been together 10 1112 years started as home server show. So we all started, kind of in this home server environment, Dave McCabe, who’s now doing reset, and over the last decade have all just kind of hung out together. And I think we’re the best community in the world and a great place to hang out everybody’s kind to one another. So if you’re, you came in on that and you need a community to join. We’re no pressure here. You’re not gonna get anything. We just hang out and it’s a lot of fun to be together. So thanks for joining us tonight.

Jon Panozzo  [13:53] 
So, Jim, you can get entertainment. You do free entertainment.

Mike Wieger  [13:59] 
Great beer pin. I just have the probably the one of the best parts of our show come to the pre show get the beer picks at least

Jim Collison  [14:03] 
Yeah, just come out come out early. And if you want to send us a beer, you can do the same thing as well. Jim at the average guy TV no saying

Mike Wieger  [14:09] 
that without saying that. Yeah.

Jim Collison  [14:11] 
JOHN, let’s let’s catch up with with you in what’s going on. We had john about a year ago. kind of want to ask you since the last time we had you here, kind of catch us up with with what what do you guys been doing? What are you excited about? What what? What do you want to talk about as far as where you’ve been since then? And then we’ll look at future stuff here in the car. And another question.

Jon Panozzo  [14:30] 
Sure. I mean, the biggest thing to really talk about as far as where things have been in the last year is how much we’ve grown as a business. I mean, we’ve really expanded pretty dramatically. I mean, just a few years ago, we really three guys and one contractor remote, and that was it. We’ve expanded pretty dramatically. We have a full time staff of five now and we’ve expanded the number of contractors pretty dramatically. In fact, after tonight’s call, I have another call with the team globally at nine o’clock that’s I have to do that because we got people in Australia that are dialing in People in Vietnam that are dialing in and people stateside. So it’s just awesome to see the team continue to grow because as we grow, it just lets us take on more projects and get more detailed in the product itself.

Jim Collison  [15:12] 
Has the you kind of alluded to this a second ago with with this COVID? And with people having more time has it changed? Like are you seeing more community involvement just as people because like, I know I’m more involved in our discord group because I’m sitting, I sit here and like I can I can be more involved in it. Whereas before I didn’t work, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t do Discord. There’s because it was kind of distracting and still distracting here. But I’m doing it more because I’m here. Are you seeing any of those even even if it’s just a little bit? Are you seeing some changes in participation?

Jon Panozzo  [15:46] 
You know what, honestly, that’s something we should probably look into and see how much our forum activity is changing me from a sales standpoint, there are businesses on the same trajectory. So we haven’t seen any impact negative or positive there. It’s just been the same which is fine. It’s great. But from a forum participation standpoint, wouldn’t be surprised if we see a lot more people participating creating new topics asking for help to configure different applications, things like that. Because that’s what else you’re gonna do. You know, there’s only so many times you can watch the same TV show on Netflix free, like, I want to stream something from the server. I don’t know.

Jim Collison  [16:16] 
Yeah. Do you find that during times like this, let’s let’s go back to as you think about your company, and some of the things you’re doing. Have Did you guys have to change anything communication, any of those kinds of things are because the way the community is already kind of distributed? It did. It just is it kind of just business as usual?

Jon Panozzo  [16:35] 
it’s business as usual, really, for us. I mean, we’ve nothing’s really changed operationally, day to day. nothing’s really changed with how we interact with people or provide support to people. You know, I used to go to our CTOs house once a week to work on different projects and stuff. Obviously not doing that right now because we’re all just staying at home. But you know, VPNs are a wonderful thing. And so we can get remoted into wherever we need to be and get whatever work we need to get done. Done. So And thankfully, I’ll show you a fun little gadget that’s gonna make you guys geek out a little bit. So I just picked this up actually from our CTO today. So anybody that’s wondering what this is, this is actually a test dev Workstation or test dev rig. So basically, it’s a little Celeron processor, believe it or not, has an NVMe port on the bottom of it. So you can even Slide it I mean, me has support for looks like to say to connections and provide state of power with no PSU No, like the PSU is where’s it, it’s, it looks like an old laptop charger. So we have a handful of folks that we need to provide development machines to and this is how we do it. We build these little boxes, Eric builds these little boxes for us. You know, again, little four core Celeron but it’s more than enough to run on right and i love this thing. This is so much fun. It’s almost reminds me of like a Raspberry Pi, but a full blown Intel x86 version of it,

Mike Wieger  [17:50] 
even though Nic two on there on that USB three dual Nic that’s in the works on

Jon Panozzo  [17:58] 
and DisplayPort How about

Mike Wieger  [18:00] 
that? That’s more than my gaming rig motherboard has.

Jim Collison  [18:05] 
Sorry. Now, I can’t show that. Can we buy those? I mean, is that is that commercially available? So yeah,

Jon Panozzo  [18:11] 
I’ll tell you what, I’ll have to get the link from Eric. You guys gonna be talking about on the next podcast, I can tell you what you actually have to buy. But this is just a standard PC. So it just boots up like a standard PC, throw the Android stick in there, load it up, you’re good to go. I mean, granted, this is not a NAS, by most people’s standard, you only have to hard drive connections. But if you just want a little test dev rig and want something to play around with and not mess around with your production systems, this is great. But you know what,

Mike Wieger  [18:36] 
there is a use case for that. I’ll use my parents that example. I have them set up with just like a to base analogy because they don’t need like, anything like they really don’t, but I have so many things that they’ve been they’ve seen in my house that I run, you know, certain Docker containers, things like I just need something very simple for you. That right there is the perfect use case for someone that just really they just need a duel, you know, to terabyte hard drives you know in raid and in their fight or not in raid sorry, in Unreal and and they’re good, right

Jim Collison  [19:08] 
looks like it’d be great firewall and that’s a very good point also a great firewall, you

Mike Wieger  [19:12] 
know how much a VM on there and run pfsense?

Jon Panozzo  [19:15] 
I brought it out right now I’m actually Eric while we’re talking. I should I should have had more info for you if I’m dealing with a gadget I better be able to know what it is right?

Mike Wieger  [19:25] 
Okay, come on in the show title. Come on john Home Gadget Geeks on we’re gonna geek out on it for a little bit,

Jon Panozzo  [19:30] 
or Erica probably messaged me back in a minute here and I’ll tell you what it is.

Tony Raynor  [19:34] 
That’s a good question, john. You know, I have a couple of nooks just sitting around, you know. So this, I think I’ve looked into a little bit you just run it from a stick, you know, inserted into the Nook and couple of external hard drives. You’re good to go.

Jon Panozzo  [19:47] 
Yeah, it is an O droid, an h2. I think somebody in the who guessed it, somebody gets it in here. I thought I saw somebody in the get in the chat, say h2, but maybe I’m wrong.

Jim Collison  [19:58] 
I don’t See you in there yet?

Jon Panozzo  [20:03] 
Private in the private chat. Oh, I pasted a link. Oh, there you go. Yeah, that inventory is hard to come by. But it’s about $111 for that little unit. Ah, and I’m pretty sure yes, there was somebody who asked the question if you can use the NVMe port if you’re using both SATA ports, I believe so. Um, I’ll have to test that out later tonight, because I’m going to be playing with this later. So I’ll find out but I’m pretty sure you can. I’m pretty sure you can use all three.

Jim Collison  [20:28] 
Okay, I’m gonna post this in the chat. We’ll have it available in the show notes as well. If not last link, john that you put in there, I think gets you there. Right at the heart.

Jim Collison  [20:41] 
Yep, h2, right. Yep, yep. Okay, perfect. Hundred and $11. Yep, yeah. Okay. That’s in there. You know, so john, the last time you were on you and I tried on raid a couple times my coward who I think we had Mike on Do we have Mike on Tony?

Tony Raynor  [20:58] 
Oh, yeah, yeah, cuz Remember, I was like you can’t have right without like I want to call you out.

Jim Collison  [21:05] 
That’s your eyes open I maybe I’d forgot that part on purpose. But the in after the show I tried it, it struggled with a little bit just to get all the hardware configurations right for me and so I kind of let it sit for a while. And we didn’t talk about it for a while. And then Wieger came back because Wieger is here. And he’s like, God, you got to get on right? And so, I was like, Alright, I’ll give it another shot. And I have to say, like, the documentation is gotten better, the the, or better when I say better, not that it was that bad before but just I think about kind of the average guy doing this. The tools to put all that stuff on a dry on a thumb drive, you know, in then it just boots right up and then you’re in and then the community app support and then all those pieces. I was up and running and doing a bunch of things on this server within an hour. It was crazy how good that setup experience has gotten has that kind of been something you guys have been targeting even the dashboard was better than I remembered from the last time I was in Have you guys been intentionally kind of targeting that setup experience?

Jon Panozzo  [22:10] 
Absolutely. And you’re gonna see that in even more in the future. I mean, the the thing with Unraid is that it is pretty simple to get started right now you just you have to know what to do. Once you know what to do, the amount of time that it takes is really minimal. But we are going to be making some major improvements to that I will say a wizard is in the future. Something that most applications have nowadays. That’s going to make things a lot easier to configure. But nowadays, honestly, most people that go to set up their first system, they go pull up some YouTube video and it might be Linus Sebastian, it might be somebody from Taiwan, right.

Mike Wieger  [22:45] 
And everything I know about Andre,

Jon Panozzo  [22:47] 
he is awesome. We have such a good relationship with that. And he’s just such a smart and really great guy. And honestly, I know that somebody had a question in the community about it. Well, I’ll say for you, you bring it up later, but I’ll just say this, Ed is best content creators when it comes on right? I mean, just does such a great job. And he, and he figures out the most difficult stuff that that we just wouldn’t have had the time to figure out. So I’m running

Mike Wieger  [23:08] 
on a Raspberry Pi. And he just put out a video this past week on how he got how he kind of got it to run on a pi. Like, it wasn’t even it wasn’t even that people want to do that. It was just the proof of concept and seeing his brain work and how he got that to work was just a super cool process, just seeing his process. It sparks that creativity and all the rest of us on raid users,

Jim Collison  [23:27] 
for sure for sure. Let’s john, let’s get right to that question. Since you since you brought it up. I think it was Shinto Shinto saint in the in the forum said My question is Will Andre team ever consider a subscription service with video tutorials like Space Invader? I appreciate the work and are very grateful for it. But sometimes, if you like prefer to get guidance from the people that designed the OS or individuals authorized by Andrade, for the community to assist a noob and that’s that’s a guy like me to users who are getting more advanced doctors or features set up more quickly. That’s the question. Any thoughts on that?

Jon Panozzo  [23:59] 
Yes. So we I’m, while ago before Ed started really cranking out the content, he was always a member of the community and always trying to help out in any way that he can. But before that, we started putting videos up on our own YouTube channel on basic things like how to manage game libraries, or how to set up a Windows 10. VM. And then we saw Ed, and we started asking ourselves, why are we wasting time creating content, when this guy is so much better at it so much faster at it and digs into topics that we didn’t even think about? So to be quite honest, I just don’t see us needing to do that. We already work with that pretty closely and give him ideas on videos that we’d like to see him do or what like, for example, we’ve got a new release that’s coming out pretty soon here. I’m not gonna spoil anything for him, but we kind of asked him ahead of time, hey, do you want to do something to kind of show this stuff off? And we’re giving him early access to it? So quite honestly, I don’t think we would try to outdo Ed, at any point. I don’t see us competing with them either.

Mike Wieger  [24:54] 
Just put him in house, right. And

Jim Collison  [24:57] 
I mean, we got

Mike Wieger  [25:00] 
Use the official logo. So people know like, Hey, this is an official guy.

Jim Collison  [25:04] 
There you go.

Jon Panozzo  [25:06] 
I’m fine with him using the Android logo. That’s me. He is a brilliant, brilliant dude who’s just really done a great job of pushing a lot of content out over a very short period of time covering really detailed topics. I mean, stuff like how to run on raid on a GPU or how to run a VM off of a GPU when you only have one in the system. I didn’t even know how to do that for a while. And I put a video out I’m like, that’s awesome. So, you know, I can’t tell you how many times we get an email and the support and the responses, check out this video. And it’s back to it. So yeah, Space Invaders, one can’t recommend them enough. I think that you’re all back to Shinto. You’re already on the right path. Follow. They’ll take you to the promised land.

Jim Collison  [25:45] 
shinta also asked the question around licensing tears. I’m on the basic tier, I jumped right on to get that. Any thoughts on on future you’re going to change those at all. Going forward.

Jon Panozzo  [25:56] 
All I can say is Stay tuned. We’re constantly looking At our business model and ways to change it to support a wider customer base, you know, we have no delusions of grandeur here. But at the same time, we want to make things easier for people what I can promise you. And what I can definitively say is that we’ll never remove features or benefits from existing customers. So you paid for a license, you paid for certain benefits, you’re always going to get those benefits.

Jim Collison  [26:21] 
It’s good to hear that it’s super important in the space as well. Anything else in the year between the last time we had you on and now that you guys are super proud of,

Jon Panozzo  [26:32] 
I’d say the UI are the updates that we’ve made to our user interface, and just some of the core functionality and the dashboard interface. I mean, where we were a year ago today, it’s night and day. And there’s one of our contract guys. Magnus has been phenomenal at helping giving us different UI concept, different ways to present things to the user. So you’re going to continue to see that refinement as time goes on. But yeah, the last year I’d say that was probably one of the biggest things that we’ve been tweaking. I’m sure I’m going to give away so many information here like maybe an IP address or something, but I don’t really care. So it’s internal doesn’t really matter. But when you talk about the when you talk about the UI this is this is my my dashboard for the for the server is actually sitting on a shelf right up here, which is which is super cool. And I was able to repurpose a core i three 540 I think 555 40 i think that’s that’s right.

Jim Collison  [27:24] 
on the dashboard, I can’t I actually can’t see it too small. In the look that I am I guess I could look over here but um, yeah, no, I have been I have been super impressed with just the the, the look, it’s just clean. It’s effective. It’s It was really nice. And I think when did this UI kind of come to be I know you guys kind of upgrade but this look and feel how long has this been there?

Jon Panozzo  [27:51] 
Ah, you know what, probably right after the last podcast is when we started pushing out the first iterations of changes to this. You know, like I said, once we started working With Magnus early on, he kind of thrown through this concept at us. And we were like, this is just this is awesome. Like, it just looks great. It’s well constructed, it’s well laid out. It’s it just made sense. So we’ve been just kind of tweaking it and adding more to it over time. But yeah, there was no one release that I think had all these UI updates in it.

Mike Wieger  [28:16] 
And what I like about it is what you guys have taken is the dashboard view that homepage of Unraid is exactly what it says it is like that dashboard, I don’t have to leave that page very often. I can leave that page even up even so much as like I’m monitoring my ups and it even pulls in the UPS data so it tells me how much power I’m pulling on the UPS which is just plugged in via USB. I’ve got my interface in and out for the entire rig like it has absolutely everything I would need on that page. You don’t need to click around I think that’s one of the biggest improvements is really just the things you guys have been adding. There were little plugins that I’d had before that I honestly don’t even know if I should probably just uninstalled I don’t know if I needed like temperature, right temperature of the CPU and the board all these things. Different things, I’d say I would agree with you, I think that has been the biggest improvement. I don’t know if it’s been the last year or two years, whatever it is, but every little iteration, it just gets better. And that one page, I rarely have to leave because I’m really making settings changes. I’m mostly just checking in checking Plex usage, seeing, you know, how the server is doing when it’s doing its backups and things like that.

Jon Panozzo  [29:21] 
Yeah, thank you for the feedback. I mean, that’s, we feel the exact same way. I mean, it’s UI is really, really important. That has a lot to do with user experience, and has a lot to do with ease of use. And so putting everything in a single pane of glass that’s really easy to kind of survey quickly get the critical details, you know, we do like little things make a big difference, like when your CPUs are running really hot, we make it red, like we highlight it when it’s getting near max use it and that draws your eye to it faster. It’s

Mike Wieger  [29:45] 
little things like that, that I think are actually really, really important because if we didn’t do that, and your CPU is hitting 100% your eyes not being drawn to anything on that massive dashboard. So those little little features here and there really go a long way in even going back to how you guys have everything installed on the USB Drive. So two nights ago talk about being home and quarantine and tweaking. I totally messed up my network settings. Don’t ask me what I did, I don’t know, I royal I was trying to add an extra Nic and add an extra subnet and all this stuff. And I have a Cisco switch and I messed something up. I booted it down, I pulled out the USB stick, I just deleted the network config, the network rules config, plugged it back in, fired it up. And we were good. But come right back up and running, did the defaults, like within two hours of being able to pull that out and edit those files within seconds on any other machine was flawless. And you just can’t do that with many other lessons. You can’t just pop out a USB thumb drive and plug in never seen make that change and then plug right back in and the information on how to do that. Or the idea to pull it out and just delete those two files came from the forums like the forums are super active. So the whole combination of that so I really like how it’s installed on a thumb stick to I think that’s oftentimes overlooked and some people even claim it’s a bad thing. I see a lot of like, Oh, I don’t like how it says The thumbstick man, that’s only saved me It hasn’t hurt me ever. In the entire time I’ve been running on raid.

Jon Panozzo  [31:06] 
Yeah, I mean, there’s always gonna be a horror story about a bad storage device. And somebody’s like, Oh, I lost my USB stick it got it. Right. Well, there’s that. And it’s we made it pretty easy to do that. But yeah, here’s the big thing, right. So a lot of people when they talk about, oh, I’m not sure about putting it on a flash. The scenario where I might agree with that is when you’re putting the box somewhere way out of arm’s reach. So if you’re hosting in a data center, okay, maybe I can maybe understand that a little bit better. Because you really want that storage device to be super resilient. And that’s why you want like a raid one set for a server that’s living in a data center, but a box that’s living in your house that you can go to and touch physically touch whenever you want to, who cares? I don’t see I see it as more of a feature than a cost. Because if you if let’s say that the OS was installed on hard drives, and you wanted to do the same thing after you screwed your network settings, are you going to remove the hard drives from your app? Yeah, I’m in a doc attached to a Windows machine to edit a couple files than pluck. No, but a USB stick. Absolutely.

Mike Wieger  [32:06] 
Oh, it was dropped dead easy. 100% Yeah. And and what I did say that so if you guys don’t know, if you click on your main settings and just click on your flash drive, there is a button that just says flash backup. Just click it and then put those files somewhere every so often every time you make some big changes, just do that. And then you always have a backup of your flash drive. And you can redo the whole thing within seconds and have a backup and running. I agree it’s been it’s been a huge lifesaver.

Jon Panozzo  [32:32] 
You can pull on my air in a minute here because I’m about to make that even easier for you. So we’ll talk we’ll talk about that a second.

Mike Wieger  [32:38] 
We get that automated I will love you.

Jim Collison  [32:41] 
Automated widely let’s You teased it so let’s let’s jump ahead as we

Jon Panozzo  [32:46] 
wait 20 minutes, nobody wants to hear about new features. Nobody wants to talk roadmap. Nobody cares about six, nine. Come on, let’s just let’s talk about

Jim Collison  [32:55] 
what I’m worried about. You said you had a call at nine which means we got 15 minutes. Okay,

Jon Panozzo  [32:58] 
fair enough. I’ll tell you what if those guys got to wait a few that they can shout it out. But here, I will give you some, some some Yeah, let’s let’s look forward a little bit. Let’s first talk about six, nine. And then we’ll talk about beyond six dot nine. So six that is already very close to completion. We’re in the betas right now. And the biggest thing that’s coming in six that night, this is unrelated to what Mike was just talking about. But the biggest thing coming in six nine that I am so excited about is multiple pools. So for the longest time, we’ve only had an array and a cache. And that’s it. Now you’re going to be able to create as many different pools as you want. And what’s really important about that is that that doesn’t just apply to Okay, I want to run some VMs. And I want them on dedicated storage. It also applies to shares. So let’s say you have a media share, and you’re bringing in content constantly and you want to be able to cache that content to some SSDs or something as it’s being written into the system. Okay, you can create a pool and assign it to just that share. So now let’s say you have another share, and that share represents your home surveillance. Maybe all your cameras are pumping in video streaming Right, well, now you want to have that go to a different storage pool for caching purposes, then to the same one that’s doing all that media caching. So you can create multiple pools now, you can have them participate in shares by policy individually. This is the biggest thing that I think people are going to use this for is to segment VMs. So that you can have a dedicated pool of storage for virtual machines. Where right contention isn’t causing performance problems in the VM when you’re caching. So I’m super stoked about that. This has been something we’ve wanted to add for a while. And I gotta say, in the testing that we’re doing right now, so far, it’s working really well. So I’m very eager to get people’s feedback on that. That’s huge. I would love to be able to write so when I back up, I sent certain storage from my blue Iris box over to Unraid and I do a share right now I have cached turned off because I don’t want to take up all the i o into that cache because that cache running all my other Dockers. So I just have a go straight to disk. I would love to be able to use a cache but those pools just being able to separate those out have one for blue Iris through a bunch of SSDs in there essentially to create a bunch of pools and not have to worry about them being affecting the other huge also, I’ll give you another good use case for it. So nowadays you got a lot of motherboards that are shipping with these m two ports that support NVMe. But the max number of NVMe ports that you’re going to get on the system is going to be rather limited. Like you’re not, you’re not going to get a motherboard that’s got 24 NVMe ports on it, right, you can get maybe a SATA controller that’s got that many ports, but not, not for NVMe. So what do you use NVMe. For on an unrated server? Well, for me, it’s VM storage, that’s like, to me the no brainer, because it’s high performance. It doesn’t have to travel over the network, especially if you’re if you’re doing anything like gaming VMs or stuff like that. So now you could say, Alright, I’m going to create one pool and just use my NVMe devices for that pool, use that just for VM storage, and then separately have a SATA based SSD pool where I don’t need, you know, 1000 plus megabytes per second write speed, I don’t need it for this. I just need it to be fast enough so that it’s not saturating my array when I’m trying to watch a movie with new rights that are coming in and making problems for me. So I think that’s gonna be a really big one is using different tiered storage for different purposes.

Jim Collison  [36:05] 
Huge. When does that come out?

Jon Panozzo  [36:07] 
Ah, soon

Jon Panozzo  [36:10] 
the community has this wonderful habit of putting soon and then like a trademark next to it because I don’t know how I don’t know if you guys remember this company, but there was an old gaming company called 3d realms, and they had this development mentality of when it’s done when they make games. And that’s kind of how our software development works. Like we try to stay on a very rigorous schedule. But if it ain’t done, it ain’t done. Yeah. And so we’re not going to put out buggy code, we’re not going to rush to hit a release date and potentially corrupt someone’s data. Protecting customers data is our number one priority at all times. So all I’ll say is, is that we are very close to a release. I’m not going to give a date. What

Jim Collison  [36:47] 
would the upgrade for me going from six eight to six nine? Well already

Jon Panozzo  [36:51] 
I’m already upset with you, Jim. Because when you showed your screen, you’re not running.

Jon Panozzo  [36:57] 
You’re a whole point. Oh oh, one releases behind I don’t I don’t know how that happened.

Mike Wieger  [37:03] 
You haven’t on the show, Jim. Come on, I’m sure it’s updated.

Jon Panozzo  [37:06] 
All right, he’s only one dot release away.

Jim Collison  [37:09] 
I’ll forgive him. I’ll forget I’m getting I’m getting release shame.

Jon Panozzo  [37:14] 
But your process to update is super easy. You’re just gonna go to that Tools tab, go to update OS, click Check for updates. And when it becomes available, you’ll just download it there, there’s nothing special, you’re going to have to do other than if you’ve already used all your SSD to create a big pool, there’s not going to be a way to quickly and easily break that up. So, you know, you create a storage aggregate with like butter Fs is what we use for our cash flow right now. You can D assign devices depending on how much free space you have. But here’s what I’m going to say to anybody that are out there that’s worried about I want to break up my pool to create multiple pools. If you’re not sure about what to do, post in the forum. Go into general support posts in the forum ask

Mike Wieger  [37:54] 
what will help you out? Is that going to stay the same butter Fs while you’re still going to use for cash pools

Jon Panozzo  [38:01] 
That’s all for now. Why? What do you what do you know? No reason?

Mike Wieger  [38:06] 
Oh, there’s a reason why would you say the only issues I’ve had with one raid in it, it could have been on my end. But it was literally the only thing I’ve ever and I had it consistently was in the event of having to hard shut down the Unraid box user error, probably something I did that cash flow never recovered. And I luckily I ran a community applications backup of my app data folder. And it was just a quick and easy just throw it back on. I so I have actually removed the second drive just so I can run ZFS on the SSD. I can hard shut that thing down all day now and no issues zero. So it was just interesting. I don’t know what the cause was, again, probably some on my side. But the only issue today that I’ve ever had with on raid is in a hard shut down or an environment something would go wrong. The drives would get out of sync and it would just be unrecoverable. You couldn’t do anything about it.

Jon Panozzo  [39:00] 
Um, did you try doing like a butterfly scrub,

Mike Wieger  [39:03] 
scrub and all that stuff and nothing. Yeah. So again, that could have been on my side, one of my drives or something. But I also now I have that I pulled it out like, well, it’s a 500 gig SSD. I haven’t the gaming rig and nothing’s gone wrong with it. So it was just interesting. The issue there, so I didn’t know if there were any plans to change that if that’s a common issue or just a very, you know,

Jon Panozzo  [39:22] 
well, I’m all I can, all I can say is that we are looking actively into ZFS.

Mike Wieger  [39:30] 
Okay, that’s

Jon Panozzo  [39:33] 
I knew what you were getting at. All right. I know what you’re good at. I’m smart

Mike Wieger  [39:36] 
guy. I don’t have to support that. So I’m totally fine. If you guys done that.

Jon Panozzo  [39:39] 
That’s not true. That’s not true. You have the you have the ram to support it. So first of all, let’s just hammer this one out. Because I know there’s another question that somebody wanted to ask about ECC. Yeah. Jim, do you have that question up? Because I do.

Jim Collison  [39:50] 
Yeah, I do. Let me bring it up. It said this. How important is ECC ram for the unrated software compared to ZFS. Does it make a significant in all caps significant difference the way the file systems are set up having ECC RAM, for unrated for the Unreal oS? Or will I have relatively the same protection using normal hardware that doesn’t support?

Jon Panozzo  [40:12] 
Okay, so clearly, clearly, you’re not going to have the same protection. So ECC is a hardware level feature that basically adds parody to ram. That’s all it’s doing. Right? It’s checking to make sure that all the bits that are stored in a row are good. And if they’re not, then it can do a check, it can run against the checksum and fix that debt. Now, why would that bit get flipped? Well, a cosmic ray may hit your memory chip at just the right angle and flip that bit now your data is corrupted. So is it you know, does data corruption happen to systems that don’t have ECC memory? Sure. But data corruption can also happen to systems that do have ECC memory due to other reasons. So, you know, I questioned the value of ECC a lot for our users, because again, most people that have a server in their home, it’s not the same value proposition, as say Netflix or Google. Google or Amazon or Microsoft, who has 10s of thousands of millions of people connecting to their servers every couple minutes. So what I would say is this if you’re if you have cash to burn, and you’d money’s not an object and you want to build a dedicated server, and you want the highest level of redundancy, the highest level of protection, go for man knock your socks off. But if you’re like the rest of us mere mortals out there that want to squeeze every penny of performance out of the money we put into our systems, the cost of ECC, the memory is not the issue. The cost of the memory is not the issue, the difference between an ECC memory chip and a non ECC chip is negligible. I mean, it’s, it’s not nothing but it’s negligible. But the cost of the server that you have to buy to support ECC is a dramatic price difference versus say, desktop class components. So again, my view is this. If you’re Netflix, and you’re looking at servers that are going to go in your data center, you start asking yourself, Well, how much does it cost me, for the server to go down like a server crashes and it’s a hard crash and somebody has to physically go there or toggle power or Or reboot or whatever, how much does it cost me in dollars and cents per minute to be down? Now ask that to somebody who’s building a server in their home and most of them are going to go nothing. Like I it’s to me it’s Yeah, it sucks when the server goes down, I don’t want it to crash. But most people are going to be willing to fix that problem. And let’s, let’s be fair here, there are numerous layers of error correction control built into hardware memory is just one area that that happens. And there’s plenty of other areas that that things can go wrong and as well, so again, my general recommendation to people when it comes to ECC, nothing requires ECC. That’s a misnomer. Even free NAS and ZFS do not require ECC memory to function. They highly recommend it because they’re worried that if something does go wrong, and data does come become corrupted, and you’re not using ECC memory, they want something to be able to say, well, that’s that’s the reason you need to go get this you need to be doing this. Our view is yes, data corruption can occur. It’s time possible, the likelihood of it happening in such a way that you can’t get back to any of your data and your systems down for a super long period is really, really minimal. So I’ll tell you right now, I don’t have any servers that are any computers that I’ve ever bought myself, that use ECC, I have a couple that have ECC that have been given to me for testing and whatnot. But that’s it. So again, if you’re putting in a data center, it’s a different scenario. Now going back to your, I was

Mike Wieger  [43:26] 
gonna say, go back to high enough ram for ZFS system,

Jon Panozzo  [43:30] 
right? So So the amount of memory you need translates to performance, and that’s part of the research we have to do is figuring out is there a threshold that we have to provide a recommendation for, but I don’t think that with ZFS. Like, if you have a system that only has four gigs of RAM and a lot of storage, I don’t think and maybe somebody will correct me and say I’m wrong, but I don’t think that it’ll just not work. I think that if anything, it might have a performance impact, but it should be able to work within the confines of whatever performance restrictions you place on it.

Mike Wieger  [43:58] 
Yeah. Well, because I think Well, but I thought like the the recommendation has always been like, one gig of ram for every terabyte of storage, right is like roughly. So I had like 16 gigs of RAM in here for a 24 terabyte array of usable space added onto that 32 I guess once you add in the parity drive, whatever. So I was always concerned, I wouldn’t have enough but I guess if it’s just a performance issue, if it’s not a requirement of the system, I’d be super interested if we went to ZFS instead of butter Fs at least just x Fs has been fine for everything else. But, uh, just for that for that cash.

Jon Panozzo  [44:35] 
No, I hear Yeah, I mean, it’s it’s weird. Butter fest is weird, because like in our test rigs, I’ve never had my cash pull crap out on me. I’ve just never had it happen. And so, and I’ve got multiple systems that have both either HDD or SSD. I’ve done it with NVMe devices. It doesn’t seem to matter for me. Now, I know there are people in the community that have had problems with it. And I don’t know if that’s a hardware specific problem that that butter Fs just gets blamed for or like in your case where it’s a power outage. And, you know,

Mike Wieger  [45:01] 
protect yourself every time it was if it’s a hard shut down. That’s the only time it ever happened. But it was every time it was a very repeatable error.

Jon Panozzo  [45:08] 
Yeah, that’s that’s the part. That’s weird. If I hard shut it down, I can expect

Mike Wieger  [45:12] 
I did expect it. And sure enough, it would come up, none of the doctors would show up and I go, yeah, my cash drive is my cash pools done. Just pull it back up from ca backup. And I’d be a backup and running so that that plug in from ca has been my number one recommendation for everyone is just might as well, especially if you’re running your app data. Only on the cash pool. You know, you don’t have any backup there. So you might as well run that up. So yeah, it hasn’t been an issue because the fix is 10 minutes of my time. Right.

Jon Panozzo  [45:41] 
Now, and I’ll tell you like when it comes to CFS, I mean, it is something that we’ve been asked about quite a bit. And we’ve had different thoughts about it over the years. And we’re finally getting to that point where it’s like, you know what, we see what’s happening within Ubuntu from canonical, and they’re adding ZFS support to their Linux distributions. So it’s starting to make us questions. Maybe we should be doing the same thing. It’s it’s something that that has mainly been a licensing challenge. And I’m sure if you do any basic research on what Linus Torvalds had to say about it, you’ll understand where we’re coming from, but we might have some unique ways to overcome that. So, you know, all I can say is, again, stay tuned, I don’t have any timelines for you at this point, but it is something that’s on the development roadmap. So I can tell you, it’s not something that we’re just, you know, shooting about where we’re actually looking into it.

Jim Collison  [46:27] 
Interesting. JOHN, Rob asked any SMB issues on 683, he saw a bunch of Reddit posts sayings that has to be performance declined from the previous version.

Jon Panozzo  [46:37] 
And I would say that’s probably somewhat anecdotal. I can’t say that I’ve seen any major SMB performance issues. Yeah, I, I wouldn’t say that that’s a known problem in our community right now.

Mike Wieger  [46:50] 
Okay, I’m as a person, I’m running 683. I was transferring a bunch of files today from the main road over and was full gigabit tearing them so

Jon Panozzo  [46:57] 
fire shack out of the out of the forums. To ask a question kind of around backup, a long question are kind of short. And one of the things he says that often stops me recommending Unraid is the less technically minded users is the lack of kind of a built in easy to use backup tool that can be managed through the web interface. So does Unraid have point team have any plans for adding a more, maybe easier to use backup solution? So we’ll dip our toes into talking about flash backup, and then we’ll talk about backup as a bigger idea. Okay, so So Mike talked about, hey, there’s this wonderful button in the UI called flashback. I mean, just pushing it creates a zip file, boom, you’re off to the races. Wouldn’t it be awesome if that same button just clicked itself automatically, every time you made a change it wouldn’t it be even more awesome if that backup went to the cloud, so that if your flash died on you, and you forgot to make that backup, or maybe you don’t have another PC laying around and make a backup to or maybe the PC that you did back it up to isn’t in your house anymore, whatever. Now you can just go login, download a zip file from the cloud, and that’ll be the latest backup of your flash. So that is something That is coming. It’s part of a set of new features that we plan to roll out known as my servers. And flash backup, automated flash backup is one of those features that we are working on. So it’s gonna make life a lot easier because you know, as great as that button is, I don’t, I don’t love it right now only because you have to click it. And so every like you go make a change to the OS, you add a share, go back, click that button, right. It’s just kind of a hassle on them. I fully admit that. But it’s something that we look to automate and automate to a cloud target in the future, because it’s relatively small, right? With the amount of backup data that we’re talking about on that flash is relatively small, and a lot of it can be duplicated, right? Because if I’ve got, the vast majority of the actual storage being used from the OS is flat files that are the same on everybody’s stick. What’s unique is what lives under that config directory. That’s what’s unique to you. So if we can just back that stuff up, it makes everybody’s life a lot easier. It doesn’t cost us a lot to provide that solution. I mean, does we have provide cloud storage but it’s a lot less And talking about, let’s say backing up gobs of data from your array. So now we’ll switch to that we’ll talk about backups from the array. So the question that came up about us adding backup, it’s that’s a tough cookie to crack man. It is a real tough cookie. There are so many software businesses out there that do nothing but backup. So it’d be kind of kind of pounding our chest to be like, we’re just gonna add that as a feature to Andre. Don’t worry guys like, well, we’ll take care of creating rolling backups and synthetic foals and all the wonderful backups are. That’s, that’s really tough to do. So I’m not going to say that it’s never gonna happen. It’s something that I would love to see us do at some point. But I can tell you right now, it’s not on the short term roadmap, what I would maybe more likely want to see is a partnership with another company that has a backup solution and see if we can maybe create some more tightening integration there but us creating a first party backup offering. I just don’t see that in the short term.

Mike Wieger  [49:55] 
And I’ll just throw in there for if that person is looking for a service to recommend You know, for me, it’s been rock solid, duplicate it and backing up to backblaze has been just rock solid, it runs on a schedule, it has never failed. Backblaze has been a good really cheap provider for Cloud Storage. So, from from the, from one of the hosts here, that’s what I use, and it’s been great.

Jon Panozzo  [50:17] 
That’s awesome. Yeah. duplicator you’re running that inside a Docker container, right? Yep. running

Mike Wieger  [50:20] 
it from the CA right like is it again it’s super easy ca download it because it took two seconds to configure plug in your credentials, tell it what shares you want to back up, do the schedule and you’re off to the races wasn’t

Jim Collison  [50:30] 
that causes some problems with your bandwidth? And in US podcasting, it was running at time it I hadn’t limited it. Yes.

Mike Wieger  [50:38] 
So do go into the web UI, duplicate it and and make sure you limit the amount of upload it can do cuz I had it just set to full tilt. And also my schedules were off. So it was running it during the show.

Jim Collison  [50:49] 
Come on Wieger. Jason asked the question, where’s that flash backup located?

Jon Panozzo  [50:54] 
Is he talking about the button? I’m thinking he’s probably talking about the button and the button is if you go to the main tab and you click on flash Like wherever your flash devices, the button will be very obvious once you click on flash, so it’s on it’s on the flash Device Settings page. If you’re asking the for the cloud where where’s it going in the cloud? I get I guess we haven’t really finalized but I’m pretty sure it’s gonna end up being an Amazon s3.

Jim Collison  [51:18] 
JOHN, what else is we think things that you guys want to talk about? Uh, we, you know, we’re now officially over time for you. So every, every minute you spend is your choice here. I’m

Jon Panozzo  [51:30] 
just kidding. We can talk about.

Jon Panozzo  [51:34] 
Yeah, let’s talk about some of the cool things that are coming in six, nine. So a really big one that I’m super excited about. That’s not might not be the most whiz bang feature when you think about features, but it’s actually pretty important from us from a global perspective. And that’s a support for language files. So for the longest time, Andre has been entirely in English, which, okay, I mean, that’s what we have to do. We’re all English speakers. But we’ve had folks that have started requesting Hey, can we get Chinese language support? Can we get Dutch language support can we get Spanish language support. And it’s tough to do that it’s it’s tough to add that multilingual support to the product when you’re trying to continue to add features. And now you have to think about how that’s going to work from a language standpoint. So what we actually had, our one of our community developers from the Netherlands said, you know, this is actually a real problem, and I’m going to come up with a solution for it. And he did. And it’s pretty ingenious. And it basically just adds the capability to upload these language files in the Unraid. So what we’re hoping is that as a result of adding support for this, that we see, different people from the community that want to take the time to translate for us will then make those files readily available so that people can download them. So just having the ability to translate the UI into whatever language we need is a huge feature. Another big one that I think anybody with VMs is going to really care about is improvements to how device stubbing is going to work. So for anybody that’s passing through PCI devices to VMs, if you’re doing a graphics card or soundcard, super simple, don’t have to don’t have to stub anything. It just works out of the box. The moment that you You want to pass through a device that we normally would load drivers for, that’s when things become a little bit more difficult because in order to pass the device, you have to stub the device so that the drivers don’t load. So the old way of doing that was modifying the Sis Sis Linux configuration files, a little file that lives on the flash. And there’s a page in the UI where you can go and modify it, but you have to know what to put in there. And there’s a very specific string you had to put in there. So it’s coming in six, nine thanks again to another new community developer that we brought on, got in by the name of Skittles is when he goes by, he’s actually re engineered our system devices page to create checkboxes that you can then click so that you can stop those devices without having to know the vendor product ID without having to drop the command line without also without having to be worried about what what other devices are in that group. So for example, if the device that you want to stub happens to be in a group with another device that say is the USB Controller that Unraid plugged into, well, then you can’t stop that device. And if you did, you’d actually prevent your system from booting properly. So it’s Same thing goes with a SATA controller that’s running the storage devices for the array. So there’s a little bit of built in protection there as well to prevent those kind of things from happening.

Mike Wieger  [54:08] 
So that’s a pretty big one, too. So another reason why like, let’s say, built in Nvidia driver support hasn’t been a huge thing. Because if you had that instance support, and it was going to be loaded by the OS, again, you’d have to stop it. And before you pass through the VM,

Jon Panozzo  [54:21] 
you got it. And that’s also this was kind of the precursor. So our plan is to eventually incorporate those drivers. So we’ve, right now I know there are two versions of unreal that exists in the community. There’s our release. And then there’s the Nvidia release, right, and it’s maintained by group name Linux server IO, a gentleman in a forum goes by ch BMB. Also an awesome guy. Also, I believe a doctor.

Jon Panozzo  [54:46] 
I might be wrong. I might be wrong on that one, but I’m pretty sure he’s a doctor. And

Jon Panozzo  [54:51] 
he’s been maintaining this separate build and every time we put out a new release, he’s got to go and figure out okay, I got to compile this new build and build all the Nvidia drivers in there, and it’s I’ll admit it’s not a fun time for him. But he does it because he uses it. There’s tons of people in the community that have been using it. And in fact, if you’re one of those folks that wants to use those containers to, to help fight COVID-19. One of the downsides with our build is that we don’t include those drivers. So you can’t offload to the GPU. By default, you can offload to the CPU, but not the GPU. But if you’re using his special build, then you can use both GPU and CPU resources. So eventually, we want to get away from him having to do that work without you know, creating a separate bill. But we’ve been concerned that okay, how many people are going to use a Docker container that’s going to take advantage of CUDA cores, let’s say on an Nvidia GPU, versus a guy that just wants to pass it through to a VM and use it for gaming. So it was really important to us that people that wanted to do that, which is a very popular feature. We wanted to make sure that that was going to continue to work as easy as it was today. So what we’re probably going to do going forward is we’re going to bake those drivers in and we may choose to automatically pre stub all audio and graphics devices. And then if you want to remove them from the stub, you could do that. But either way, having a tool that made it super simple to do this was really important to us. And again, Skittles came through for us because this thing just works so much better than doing it the old fashioned way. It’s just not as fun.

Mike Wieger  [56:17] 
That’s fantastic. Yeah, I think really, unless you’re running folding Plex or MB and need that hardware transcoding. There wasn’t really a reason for a lot of people to need the Nvidia drivers pass through the Docker. I’ll just ask you and you can be honest or you can pass is it like frowned upon to like if I say the commuter like I’m running that version with the Nvidia drivers so I can do hardware transcoding for like, if I’m using his build is that bad compared to your guys native build?

Jon Panozzo  [56:43] 
I mean, so, yes, and no, I mean, from us the portability standpoint, like if you contacted support and said I’m running this special build and I’m having a problem passing through my GPU, not they me because I’m the one reply to that email.

Mike Wieger  [56:58] 
jackass from that podcast.

Jon Panozzo  [57:00] 
I’ll be the first one to say, hey, go boot up the regular version of Android and see if it works. Now, if it doesn’t, that’s where I’ll provide support to you. Because that’s one of the advantages of how we actually build the platform. You know, for a while there were people asking us, Hey, can you make it so that we can update the packages and Unraid separate from from what you guys release. And there’s a reason we don’t want people to do that. And the main reason is supportability. Because, you know, building an OS is just like a recipe for making food, like you had to put a bunch of different ingredients in it, and then it’s gonna taste a certain way. But when people start messing with the ingredients, it might not taste the same. And now you might end up with problems that are only because you’ve tinkered with that configuration. So you know, you look look at any other normal or open source distribution of Linux that’s out there and look in their forums. And there’s just tons of people that have these weird, quirky little problems, and no one can figure it out. Because it’s their build. It’s their unique combination of kernel software and configuration. So, you know, we don’t like it when folks kind of modify the build as a general principle. In this particular instance, we kind of provide some support to the guy that’s building these builds, you know, once in a while come in and say I’m having a problem and we’ll try to give him some assistance. Because we realize that there’s a lot of people out there that want to use it. So out of all the modified builds of unreal that you can run the Nvidia one that’s the one that I’d say is okay, but if again, if you run into the support issue, and you’re emailing me, oh my god, yeah, yeah, so But, but but eventually that’s not going to be a problem because eventually we’re gonna load those

Mike Wieger  [58:30] 
on my other version else have two USB sticks. I can just plug in and when I contact you, I’ll plug in the real version.

Jim Collison  [58:35] 
There you go. You’ll have that box sold by the time it doesn’t matter. No

Mike Wieger  [58:39] 
calls every gym Oh, let’s talk about that. There should be some testament to the people of this community who know me for the last five years being on the show. I don’t stick with anything for any period of time ever. Like past two months. I’ve sold it I’ve I get into mining I’m done. I have stuck with Unraid for years now because I tried Free Nas  Synology, Qnap. Those are the three. I tried. Before I found on read and Unraid I have stuck with for years because it is and I still enjoy tinkering with it just cuz it’s fun. I love finding new apps I can add to it. I love finding new settings. Last time john was on he gave us some tweaks to our read write things for our Ray like, I love it. So testament to everyone because they everyone knows I don’t stick with anything. I’ve stuck with it for years because it’s the best.

Jon Panozzo  [59:22] 
It’s funny you say that, Mike, because actually somebody in our community when we posted about this in the forum said the exact same thing said I’m still using that reconstruct rights setting from the last time I watched the show a year ago and john brought that up. So I’m glad that it’s it’s been validated too.

Mike Wieger  [59:36] 
I am. Okay, any other quick tip before you go and hold on?

Jim Collison  [59:39] 
I gotta prove here. Hold on before we go.

Mike Wieger  [59:43] 
There we go. That was within the time that we gave him flack for not having and he has a back up and running. And it was pretty easy.

Jon Panozzo  [59:52] 
Now I want you to go test us and be performance for me because somebody said there was a problem with that, I think

Mike Wieger  [59:58] 
transfer from our Google resume. to dive in Do you ever need a test guy hit me up john I’m I love breaking things and then putting them back together in 3am

Jim Collison  [1:00:10] 
gentlemen we made you late for a meeting but let me let me ask you this if we as you guys get close to six nine if we had you on and we dispensed with all the pleasantries and got right down to technical business if we asked you to come back would you come back in after you feel comfortable and maybe that’d be a good future thing to and we could just dive right into all the new stuff in six nine would that work?

Jon Panozzo  [1:00:31] 
Absolutely. Absolutely. Anytime you guys want me on just let me know.

Jim Collison  [1:00:34] 
Yeah. You guys offered badges in the Rob’s been asking me a couple of times out there for them and I was trying to come up we were trying to think through there they are. There they are. We were trying to chase badges I’m trying to Wieger I have one for you by the way. Oh,

Mike Wieger  [1:00:49] 
okay, just bite my bits for a long time. I got I

Jon Panozzo  [1:00:52] 
got one for hey, these are extra special because these are the ones that if you go to our online store, you can buy these These are fine, they’re fine, but they’re pretty thin. They’re pretty cheap. I don’t know if you can see from the side but these actually have a bit of a bezel to them.

Jon Panozzo  [1:01:07] 
So they’re they actually

Jim Collison  [1:01:10] 
like pillows I’ll bring other pillows you can sleep on them they’re actually I have been actually since they sent them to me but we’ve been thinking of a way to give a few of those away so here’s what I want to do follow me on twitter at j Collison right co Ll is o n. j Collison and tweet at me and Unraid, your Unraid build, right and dial style counts on this so I don’t know what it counts.

Jon Panozzo  [1:01:35] 
But more LED lights the better

Jim Collison  [1:01:38] 
Yeah, just we’re looking for nerd factor. So you know I don’t again, I don’t know what else hardware newest heart like

Mike Wieger  [1:01:45] 
anything, though, doesn’t have to be like the best it’s got to be just like cool.

Jim Collison  [1:01:49] 
Yeah, and marry factor angles. And we’re, you know, okay, we just want to see some cool pictures of your setup. So I go jump on twitter at Jay Collison make sure you get Unraid in there. As well at at well if you do add on rate, I think it’s official Android official, I think is the Twitter and then tweet those pictures. We’ll give it a week or two and then we’ll pick the best one Mike and I will pick the best couple. And we’ll let these guys know and we’ll ship them out to you. How does that sound? That john sounds like that’ll work?

Jon Panozzo  [1:02:19] 
I’ll perfect Okay.

Jim Collison  [1:02:20] 
Perfect. JOHN, thank you for coming on tonight. I appreciate you and Unraid and and Spencer who spent some time doing some great work for us so Spencer, we appreciate you as well. Well let you head out a senate like that nine o’clock meeting was pretty important. So we’ll

Jon Panozzo  [1:02:35] 
Yeah, I got a message from Eric while we were chit chatting thing. Are we skipping this call tonight or?

Jon Panozzo  [1:02:42] 
without me? I’ll be right there.

Jim Collison  [1:02:44] 
Still a bunch of podcasters we’re keeping you busy. So john, thanks for jumping in. Appreciate you having here here tonight. If you’re if you’re in the chat room, you listen, I stay around. We got a little bit we have still a little bit of show to go. But john, thanks for jumping in. Appreciate it.

Jon Panozzo  [1:02:55] 
Not a problem. Thanks, guys. He’s on sale. Thanks

Jim Collison  [1:02:58] 
for thanks for coming out. Yeah, absolutely. So, pretty great, right?

Mike Wieger  [1:03:03] 
Do I could I, and it’s a good thing. I don’t have that guy’s phone number because I would bother him all the time. I could nerd out with that guy on Unraid for hours. Yeah, it’s so much fun.

Jim Collison  [1:03:15] 
Yeah, you’re welcome Spencer. Thanks. I can’t say enough like Spencer did the best promotion job for this I’ve ever seen. I mean, maybe not as good as a Tony Rainer. The promotion job. I mean, I always point the wrong way. There we go. Raynor is on it all the time. Tony, what do you think? Give us some, give us some feedback on what you heard tonight. Yeah,

Mike Wieger  [1:03:33] 
Mike’s sure us there Nick kind of came up in the chat. So pretty much loaded on the USB drive. Then it runs from Ram. It does. So it loads all that into Ram. Really the only time you’re going to be accessing your flash drive is when you’re making system wide changes. Or if you’re using if you’re like loading a plugin, for example, because like plugins store on the flash Really that’s the only time so it’s not you I have a cheap I shouldn’t probably have this but I mean, I have a pretty cheap USB stick that’s running running in there for years because the only time it’s ever loaded is at boot. And during any of those big changes, so not hitting that USB drive very often if at all. So I guess like say what size USB drive does it require? Or any certain oh man pretty small. I saw on mine, I have an eight gigabyte on there. I’m only using 592 megabytes. Okay, so in that is with I mean, I have a pretty loaded system. I have a lot of plugins that need to be that fast. No, you could do a USB two, you could have a one gig and probably fine. I don’t know what they recommend. So this is not a official Unraid comment, but I mean, I use 592 megabytes. And it only loads every so often. I think the only time you’re ever going to even see the speed is maybe on boot. But even there like how often are you rebooting your Unraid server

Jim Collison  [1:05:00] 
I had right before I rebooted it had been a month. Yeah, you know, and I think, Howard back in the day when we were talking about this, I think he had like 600 days on his Unraid server or something like that. I mean, he was it was something ridiculous. Yeah.

Mike Wieger  [1:05:16] 
And you barely ever need to reboot it. So I know requirements are pretty

Jim Collison  [1:05:21] 
low requirements.

Tony Raynor  [1:05:22] 
Go ahead toes after the last podcast, you know, Mike Howard, and you’re like, man, I have a note sitting there. Yeah, you know, a bunch of old disk, you know, most of them dying, you know, WD green drops, of course, yeah, you know, this be kind of perfect setup, you know, just to give it a try. It totally is that I do have a Q net nest, but you know, I just really don’t use it a something new to mess with.

Mike Wieger  [1:05:42] 
But even there, like it’s perfect for the home user who has a bunch of just random drives around because the biggest advantage right is that the whole array doesn’t need to be the same size drives. Make sure your biggest drive you have available as your parity drive. I’ll do that. throw anything and everything in there. Again, This is not officially under a sponsor, but why not like throw everything in there? Your your experience, right? Yeah, my experience I have all sorts of drives in there. Ranging from you know, 500 gigs to four terabytes.

Jim Collison  [1:06:13] 
Now, Joe says he’s using a cruiser fit, I highly recommend that I think I’m using a oh shoot one of those one of those companies

Mike Wieger  [1:06:22] 
I was on the tip a little sanded that barely even stick out the back, you don’t even notice because what I have noticed is ever do need to move the server. I don’t want something big sticking out if you don’t have an internal drive so these don’t get broken off. If you don’t know it’s back there and you remove the thing. Mark marks using a gig it’s it says it’s usually five interesting. I really wonder what takes up space on these. I’m guessing plugins. But

Jim Collison  [1:06:49] 
interestingly, they do have some requirements for the license. I can’t imagine that would be very big. But Nathaniel says that by the way, Nathaniel be on the show here in a couple weeks. We’re going to I think For weeks at the end of the month, we’re going to talk a little bit about what how education has changed around its technology kind of in response to this COVID right and so Nathaniel coming on Brian Friedlander is back and then Chris Nesi is coming on. So that’ll be here end of August. If you go to the average guy tv and click on the Calendar tab, actually that was not listed today. I’ll be putting it on this weekend. But if you want to see all the upcoming show, those are coming up

Mike Wieger  [1:07:27] 
and then licenses the their pricing scheme is based off how many drives you have in your box. And I think license is tied to USB drive.

Jim Collison  [1:07:38] 
Are it’s six here I’ll show that really quick. Again,

Mike Wieger  [1:07:41] 
it’s included in the config four it

Jim Collison  [1:07:43] 
basically gets you the $60 package one time right $60 gets you up to six and then then the $90 is up to 12 and then unlimited 130

Mike Wieger  [1:07:54] 
and they have not unlike other products, that’s it. They don’t charge you again for the next release, like if you go from five to six nothing as a a one at least as far as they’ve done it a one time thing. So I think what he was saying is, you know, they might change their pricing structure, but at least if even if even if they change that, let’s say even if they charge for the seven release, they’re not gonna remove functionality from what you’ve already paid for. You might not get anything new, but they haven’t removed it.

Jim Collison  [1:08:20] 
Nathaniel says your USB drive must contain a unique GPU ID and then be a minimum of one gig in size and a maximum of 32

Mike Wieger  [1:08:29] 
interesting I don’t don’t I don’t know of any mainstream pubs that don’t have a geo ID.

Jim Collison  [1:08:37] 
Um, it was super easy like this the second time around when I went to go do it with soup. In fact, here in the community by the way, if you’re joining us for the first time and you want to join our discussion around on raid, we have one of those as well. you head out to the average guy TV slash discord and jump in there. There’s a lot of other stuff as well. We talked about distributed computing we talk about cigars that’s my favorite topic hardware some of that stuff so if you want to jump in there and get a really nice group we don’t really tolerate trolls they’re gone pretty fast so the average guy TV slash discord will get you in there Tony Have you you haven’t joined us in the discord group have you are you in there?

Tony Raynor  [1:09:17] 
I was there for a moment but I you kind of look through Facebook a little more than even you know discord

Jim Collison  [1:09:25] 
well we have a Facebook group as well Facebook.com, no,  theaverageguy.tv/Facebook if you want to join us that that groups out there as well it works just fine and of course we were talking on Twitter earlier we got a really good I think we’ve got a really good group of folks that just you know it’s I said normal amount of traffic and it’s just good stuff. So if you want to join us out there on Twitter, you can do that as well Tony any other any other thoughts from you on on Unraid or on the interview tonight.

Tony Raynor  [1:09:55] 
Know that I’ll assume that when you go to run from the I guess the USB stick Fars you had to do an install initially or just placing it on there like on a pie? You know, does it? Do you have to do an install routine? Or is it just already there? Jim, you just did it recently. Yeah, you get a couple options. To do it, it’ll ask you if you just want to run it. Or if you want to install it in I just, I just did. I can’t actually I can’t even remember the I whatever I did it when it reboots. It just fires up.

Mike Wieger  [1:10:27] 
Yeah. So the main install processing is pretty much done with the application you use on your, like, let’s say your Windows machine to build the USB driver, they have their own tool, you download it, you plug in your thing and it just it flashes that with you. Super easy, right? Because that’s the same exact reason why I could I pulled it out of the Unraid box plugged in here, the files are all there I just deleted the two configs pulled it back out, plugged it in, and it’s just good. So everything there there’s no really install process once you get a booted besides setting up, you know, your account, things like that. So there’s a setup process. I wouldn’t say as an All process.

Tony Raynor  [1:11:01] 
Okay. Can you access that off your network?

Mike Wieger  [1:11:05] 
access? What?

Tony Raynor  [1:11:07] 
access the actual box and storage off your network?

Mike Wieger  [1:11:10] 
Yes. Yep. Okay.

Mike Wieger  [1:11:14] 
Well, I should I should clarify, in certain respects. So if you’re talking about can access to share from outside via VPN? Yes, there’s really no as far as I know, there’s no native way to make it accessible. Outside there’s, it’s not like you’re not going to have the thing of like cue nap or unreal or sorry, or Synology. Like they don’t have the Connect to external option to come in. You have to connect via VPN, or what I’ve done is I’ve just installed next cloud. So I run next cloud on my own red box. And that’s how I access those files from anywhere.

Tony Raynor  [1:11:50] 
Does it mount easily on the network so you can see it from within your Windows PC, the shares?

Mike Wieger  [1:11:55] 
Yep, all the shares are super easy. You enable SMB all the permissions They’re really easy. So all my drives, all my shares are mapped to this PC that I’m on, create shares. I mean, I

Mike Wieger  [1:12:06] 
do breezy, I

Jim Collison  [1:12:08] 
was like, Alright, just messing around with it on that one

Mike Wieger  [1:12:11] 
word. That is the one thing I would say, you know, they’re adding pools, which is cool. I hope it doesn’t complicate things because like, if you run with freenas, for example, like when I ran freenas, it was very confusing, like, okay, it was confusing for a very, very new user who’s never worked with it, can you to create a pool than a share? And then like, I didn’t know how to do it. The one thing I don’t need right now is it’s super easy, because like, just create a share. It just uses all the drives, you’re going to use the array and the array is backed up, you’re fine. So it’s really easy now because there aren’t any pools. So I’ll be very intrigued. That was really cool to hear him kind of sneak peek out for us, cuz I’ll be intrigued about how well that works.

Tony Raynor  [1:12:51] 
Because I hadn’t moved to it because you now have a box with a bunch of disparate drives. With a drive pool. Yeah,

Mike Wieger  [1:12:58] 
yeah, it’s a j BOD with Cool and yeah, and it works that steel that stuff works great.

Jim Collison  [1:13:04] 
All right, you guys good? Sorry I interrupted you like four times my bad SPX said, Can we just acknowledge how easily Unraid picks up errors within hard drives best early warning system ever? And I actually have let me show this again. I actually had that happen here. And so let’s see where is it? I think maybe it’s on the main page should be on the name should be a yellow Yeah, there we go. So my, the, you know, I’ve got a it’s picking up a problem here with the flash drive that I have in there. And it found an error on my SSD drive as well. And so, john said he’d be more he’d be curious to hear more about that. And SPX said, haha, me too. I really don’t know what causes those errors. Now I didn’t do anything. It’s I’m running it with errors on there. But it It is pretty good at picking up and find an error. So that’s for sure.

Mike Wieger  [1:14:04] 
It is. Yeah, I actually just replaced my, we talked a few weeks back, I’ve been running that same four terabyte drive from, you know how many years ago seven years ago it’s been it’s been in a server and it finally threw up throw up an error but Unraid let me know and I got to replace it with my parody drive. So super easy just rebuilt the parody talked about that’s a super seamless process to as the drive dies very easy to replace a drive even when even if it were a fully fail, which it hadn’t yet because early detection had gone off and underrated let me know that hey, this thing going down. You need to get this replaced.

Jim Collison  [1:14:40] 
All right, I think that that will wrap it don’t forget that. If you want to get one of those handy badges sitting in a dresser and I can’t get to it, but if you want to. If you want to get one of those jump on twitter at Jay Collison, that’s me make sure you include me in the Unraid account. I think it’s a official Unraid, something like that and show us your setup, your Unraid setup, however you want to do that be creative, or I’m going to take the three or four or five most creative setups, and then we’ll get those over to john and they’ll get those mailed out to you as well contact you via so make sure you follow me. I’ll follow you. And we’ll contact you via Twitter. Tony, thanks for for hanging out with us tonight. I appreciate that. And now just good to have you. Good to have you here. Anything, anything new in your world that that people want to hear about?

Tony Raynor  [1:15:30] 
There’s a lot going on in our world. A lot of people may not know I work in healthcare, I work in a hospital. And I know it’s frustrating to be at home and the kids and so forth. But, you know, it’s just more than you realize, you know, you see the stories out of other countries and now follow a lot of the medical literature and it really is in some ways, you know, just a new disease. You know, first we thought, you know, this is what it was doing to them. body and this is how to treat it. And now they’re saying another way. And now another way and we just know the only way to kind of really keep things under control is you have to stay at home and good hygiene and so forth. Because I mean, literally one of the scary things and I’ve had it happen to me, is the guy, well, a person who lucky was doing well, few hours later on the ventilator. And you know, first they thought it was an old people’s disease and now they’re finding that you know, it more so still is it’s pretty interesting that Corona one of the biggest risk factors is male sex by far there’s a high blood pressure where some ways you think it’d be lung disease but that was one of the somewhat more minor is still in the top five mind you but like, what pressure heart disease and they’re looking at a few, you know, ways in which that might matter. But like I said, it’s, you know, trying to keep people well because there are a lot of facilities where you know, providers are dying. I mean, they Lily, another one today up in New York, a critical care doctor, you know, that was treating people he died, you know, people having to ration protective gear because I don’t know if that data is still current, but that if you have a person who is critically ill from Corona, that the one figure I’d read that the person doing the intubation or putting the breathing tube in to put you on a ventilator is an 8% chance that they become infected because of procedure. Mm hmm. And like saying, it’s like luggage, man, you know what, you got it? You don’t get rid of it, you know? And, gosh,

Jim Collison  [1:17:37] 
yeah,

Tony Raynor  [1:17:38] 
you know, so it does seem to be overkill. But as I say, you know, once people are ill and die, you can’t make them on dead. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, so thank you and your loved ones and everything else. Yeah, hashtag flatten the curve.

Jim Collison  [1:17:53] 
Yeah. Well, I’m hoping if you’re listening to this in it’s, it’s, you know, maybe six months from now or a year from now. I’m hoping we can say we’ve learned a whole bunch about it. And we’re doing better and everything, you know, we’re making some semblance of getting things back to order. And so, so appreciate that, Tony, thanks for coming out. We’ll do suppose show if you’re new to us, we do a little bit of post show where it’s kind of anything goes. So hang tight, if you want to stay around just a couple things kind of on your way out. Don’t forget if you want to, if you want to financially support the show in any way, we do have a Patreon account, if you want to follow us out there, the average guy.tv slash Patreon we got a monthly $5 plan if you want to jump on that that just kind of helps do the things that we do around here. So we appreciate that. It actually helps pay for the mobile app as well that we have available so we appreciate those. And I think I’ve 23 or 25 supporters out there now appreciate you guys in the work that you do as well. We mentioned the discord group in the Facebook group. If you want to send me an email you can do that Jim at the average guy.tv Don’t forget the the Twitter handle that Jay Coulson to get one of those handy badges. Don’t forget the average guy TV platform is powered by Maple Grove Park Get secure, reliable high speed hosting. But you know, and you trust, of course, you know, as Christian a long time guy here in the community. And we like what’s going on over at Maple Grove partners you can get both web and media hosting he basically does just about anything plans start as little as $10 a site. And we appreciate it if you’re thinking about doing something like that head out and check it out. Maple Grove partners.com Thanks for coming out and joining us tonight. Again, we are live every Thursday 8pm Central nine Eastern, get some extra time on your hands come out and join us. You can always listen to the recording or minus by searching Home Gadget Geeks in any podcast app. And we’d love to have you as part of the community. So with that, say goodbye

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