Bob Buskirk and Ryan Kerschner from https://thinkcomputers.org/ are back with us again and this time to cover PC cooling for beginners all the way to advanced users. Fans, cooling blocks, radiators, active and passive cooling and even some time with the difference between CPU and GPU cooling! I think you will find it very interesting.
Full show notes, transcriptions, audio and video at http://theAverageGuy.tv/hgg456
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Podcast, Home Gadget Geeks, Bob Buskirk, Ryan Kerschner, fans, cooling, PC, CPU, GPU, Airflow, computer, Computer build,
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- Cooling Reviews – https://thinkcomputers.org/category/reviews/cooling/
PC Cooling Topics – Quick Overview
- Intro to cooling – Why is it important?
Case Considerations – Quick Overview
- Number & size of fans
- Airflow restrictions
Fans – Quick Overview
- Size – 80mm/120mm/140mm/200mm
- Air Flow (AF) vs Static Pressure (SP)
- Voltage vs PWM regulated
CPU – Focused Discussion
- Stock cooling solutions
- Heatsink & fan
- All-in-One liquid coolers
- Custom liquid cooling
- Extreme cooling – LN2, Peltier, etc.
- Stock cooling solutions
- Aftermarket air coolers
- Liquid coolers
- Fan controllers
Jim Collison [0:00]
This is The Average Guy Network and you have found Home Gadget Geeks show number 456 recorded on August 20 2020.
Here on Home Gadget Geeks, we cover all your favorite tech gadgets that find their way into your home news reviews, product updates and conversation all for the average tech guy. I’m your host, Jim Collison broadcasting live from the average guy TV Studios, in here Mike, I think fall is on its way I went out this morning was 59 or something you can kind of feel it. They’re totally gonna fake us out. Right?
Mike Wieger [0:40]
It is. cool mornings, but it’s still like 90 during the day. But the mornings are tricking us into feeling like fall again in which I think you and I both like that season.
Jim Collison [0:49]
I think Bob you’re in Pittsburgh, right. And so yeah, you got to be feeling some fall weather on its way. Right. Yeah. Have you felt a little coolness?
Bob Buskirk [0:57]
like yeah, right in the morning, we go out and walk the dog. It’s a little cooler, but it’s still I’m still in shorts and a T shirt right on.
Jim Collison [1:04]
I’m not. I’m not saying it’s a winter. It just you can kind of start feeling it’s coming, Ryan, you’re screwed where you’re at you’re another two months,
Ryan Kerschner [1:13]
It was nice. This morning, I opened the garage door. And like it was like low to mid 60s. It was like nice and crisp. Super cool. But of course, there’s spots in the yard where I know it’s just getting beat down by the sun. You know, and I’m just giving up I heard you saying one time if it’s gone Brown, just leave it let it go dormant. So that’s my plan now.
Jim Collison [1:31]
Good. Yeah, it’s hard to do that because it is tough. So want to fix that, but you’re never going to recover it like you just need to let that thing go and winner. Speaking of that next week, Dave McCabe back on and we will do our fall on part three of the lawn series here for 2020. So Dave’s coming back on so if you want to join us live, head off to the average guy TV that’s always 8pm Central at theAverageGuy.TV/live. Of course, we’ll take this show we got a bunch of show notes. So we’ll post that out at theAverageGuy.TV and then slash HGG four, five Six last week with Kevin, I really struggled with that number. And I don’t know why. But I did. And so there it is, of course, you can join us on our app as well. HomeGadgetGeeks.com. The best way to stream and if you’re on the road or traveling, if we ever get to do that, again, download the app. It’s free Android iPhone, you can stream the show live in a great way to do it as well.
Well, I already introduced him, but Bob and Ryan are back. ThinkComputers.org if you have not started listening to their podcasts from the last time they were here, and you guys do a live show on Wednesday nights as well. So very similar to what we’re here to do at Home Gadget Geeks, folks can come out join you live chat room, right folks can chime in some of those kinds of things as well. Right. What have you guys Bob? What have you guys been talking about? What’s kind of hot on the radar right now? Somebody hadn’t listened to the show. What would they what would they come?
Bob Buskirk [2:47]
The big thing right now is we’re getting ready for a graphics card launch. So all we don’t know but Nvidia kind of tease their upcoming graphics cards which of course powers all of these awesome gaming machines that we talked about. So everybody’s kind of in the rumor mill, talking about what these next series of cards are going to be, how expensive they’re going to be. You know, that’s kind of kind of really what’s going on as far as news wise and then as far as reviews I mean, we we’ve been taking a look at it everything Ryan’s been doing what’s the last time you did this key lights
Ryan Kerschner [3:20]
key like sir, yeah,
Bob Buskirk [3:22]
and he did some streaming stuff. I’ve been doing keyboards, motherboards, all kinds of different stuff. So keep him busy.
Jim Collison [3:30]
If you guys could review one thing that you’re currently not reviewing what what would you like? These are things you don’t have access to.
Ryan Kerschner [3:40]
I think we get offered some things that we just don’t take because they’re not our normal wheelhouse. Yeah, right. I mean, I think you know, maybe Smart Home stuff we don’t really do I know, you know, a couple years back, we did some lights, Bobby did some lights and maybe some smart speaker type stuff. I could see us maybe getting into that but we’re actually pretty busy as we are.
Bob Buskirk [4:01]
Yeah, I would love to review cameras because I’m a camera guy. But that’s that’s I don’t know enough I wouldn’t know enough about it to really yeah, you know, cameras or drones or like that kind of stuff I’d love to do but that’s just stuff I’ll buy on my own and tinker around with when I can
Mike Wieger [4:18]
You gotta get into the electric car market. Get Elan Musk on the phone. Hey, you know, Teslas? Audi send us your new electric car.
Bob Buskirk [4:26]
Jim Collison [4:27]
I wonder how many podcasters they get that try to do that like oh, you have a review? A Tesla review? Yeah. Well for me you know I that’s why I kind of did what I did with Home Gadget Geeks so I could have the experts on because I don’t I didn’t want to be the experts in any of that stuff. But I certainly wanted to talk about it. And so it gave me a great opportunity like to have you guys on tonight we’re talking about cooling and kind of why it’s important. This is let me be real clear on this like the last time I really thought about cooling and computer. It the the computers came with fans and That’s all you did. You just turned them on like I had, I missed the whole liquid cooling. Now the cooling with lights, the kind of all the cool stuff that over the last decade, probably, I just haven’t. And for whatever reason I bought computers that didn’t need it, or no, I guess they didn’t because they got along just fine without it is I’ve been listening to you guys. And as we’ve been talking about this, it’s got me kind of thinking like, in fact, at one point, I’m so ignorant on fans I had to send Ryan a note and I’m like, hey, my case is making a lot of noise. What do I buy? Right? And he gave me some recommended recommendations. We’ve talked about that here on the show. But But Ryan here, this is this is kind of your space. Why? I mean, does everybody have to worry about this? If I buy a computer? Do I have to worry about the cooling or is it just a nice to have talking so
Ryan Kerschner [5:53]
I think we’re kind of in two groups here right? The enthusiast gamer Do It Yourself build type of person You know, and the think computers we focus on, we’re definitely going to be interested in fans and how many in their placement and all things like that. But was someone that’s just going out and buying a unavailable part or PC off of the shelves at Best Buy or ordering something from HP or Dell, whatever the case may be, when you’re getting it from them. They’ve already designed that chassis and the thermals for that to set it and forget it, right? They’re going to typically have maybe a fan in the front, one in the back. And they’ve designed their heat sinks and the power draw of all the components to just be as quiet as possible, as efficient as possible and without overheating, right. And that’s the main thing we kind of want to focus on with cooling. Why is it important? Well, we don’t want to overheat our components. We want to get a little more life out of them by keeping them cool and not over running them. And then if we really want to get into additional performance, additional cooling is required in order to do things like overclocking, right. Things get hotter when you throw more volts To them, and you’re trying to run them faster. So that’s when things like, you know, improved heat sinks, aftermarket coolers, better fans, depending on, you know, if your liquid cooling or doing just air cooling, you know, there’s all sorts of fan blade designs and types of flow that come into that. So that’s kind of the main reason it’s important, right? Not so much on the store bought shelf bought products, but when you’re building them and choosing components for a build, that’s when it really starts to become important.
Jim Collison [7:29]
Bob, would you have anything to that?
Bob Buskirk [7:31]
No, I mean, he pretty much covered that is, when you buy something off the shelf, it’s designed with, you know, to cool, whatever you’re buying, it’s designed for that. Now, if you’re building your own, you obviously have to think about cooling because you’re the you’re going to be the one who’s installing the fans. In the case, you’re the one who’s going to be picking the different parts. So you kind of need to have at least a general understanding. You can’t just put the parts in with no fans and then expect the best performance because you’re More than likely going to overheat if you do that.
Jim Collison [8:03]
Mike, go ahead, go. I know you. I was gonna ask you, are you in a situation today? Like, what do you have that needs fans and what do you have that doesn’t?
Mike Wieger [8:12]
Well, it’s funny. So when I, you guys know my story, I shared it a million times on here of going from, you know, the iMac that sits right there that’s now just a ham radio computer to a small junky quote, you know, gaming rig that I tried to go and then now I just, you know, got all new parts and put it into a new chassis. But for me what I what got me was the noise level. So this thing sits right here. I like to you know, it’s got a nice tempered glass thing I could look into it, like you can see right here, but the stuff I hid in there before the stock stuff was had to spin up so fast when I was playing my big games. It was really loud. And so I actually, you know, reached out to Ryan to and I said, you know, what should I go with I’ve never thought about cooling. So this machine a few months ago was the first time I’d ever thought about any cooling that wasn’t just the stock cooling came with a computer. And we ended up going with the AIO route. And what with Alphacool Eisbaer. cooler. And it’s been amazing. I was shocked. Number one, the difference between the stock cooler and this cooler in terms of temperature. That was just really cool to see. Right. So I’m when I’m playing Call of Duty, which maybe isn’t the most taxing, I think it’s a pretty taxing game. It’s the most taxing game I play on here. And I play it, the computer is still dead silent, doesn’t make any sound. I got different front fans for the front. So it’s got front intake, it’s got the AIO for the CPU, and then with a obviously the Rad up top, and I think doesn’t make noise. I can’t tell the difference between when I’m idle. And when it’s full throttle. It’s just super, super quiet, which made all the difference for me. So I don’t think Jim if it wasn’t for sound, I don’t know if I ever would have thought about it. Because well maybe I would have had if I would have started noticing bad performance on on temperature, but I wasn’t monitoring temperature. I rarely ever did that unless I have a problem, right? I’m not looking at it but now it’s like a competitive thing with myself. Like I am constantly now I have the temperature up in the corner. I’m watching it What does it do what I play flight simulator? What was that? Do what I play Call of Duty, right? what’s what’s causing the CPU stuff and and knowing that this thing Oh, what’s that test that everyone burns out their CPU on prime 95 or
95. So I ran prime 95 on this thing for a long time very long I should have in this cooler kept it super cool. It was awesome. Well great to watch below the average of what I saw even for this cooler. So once you get into it, it’s like a slippery slope because it is almost like competitive with yourself of how cool Can I get this? And how quiet can I go?
Jim Collison [10:36]
The community talked me into buying I get Dell 3050 which is a little one of those little mini puck. Right and and I installed the SSD in it. And I actually thought at one point it was fanless. And the other day I was running MyRadar, which is an application I use all the time for weather in it. It sucks down a lot of data you should we were talking in pre show about flight simulator data. It’s constantly upgrading, you know the maps in there and stuff that actually kicked on a fan I didn’t even know existed. Like I heard the fan come on. Where is that fan? Oh my gosh, this little thing has a fan. And and so, you know, it’s surprising kind of where and how and how they hide them. Ryan when we think about so you’re doing a build. And I think the the very first thing we start with is a case. And like I used to look at cases for how cool they looked like that’s what I was looking for. But now there’s some thermals in that. So, as we think about Okay, I’m buying a case I know I’m going to have higher end, I know I’m going to overclock it. I know there needs to be some cooling considerations, where as we look at cases, what kind of things do we need to look for?
Ryan Kerschner [11:37]
Yeah, so number number one, I think is to start off the number and size of fans, right? So and you’re right. How the case looks is also very important to a lot of people and some people will sacrifice performance and thermals just to get the look that they want, right. They don’t care if it’s running hot or making noise. They want it to look a certain way. The case that I am using for example, goes against a lot of the thermal good thermal practices, right? It’s a solid aluminum front, there is no intake at the front glass panels aren’t great for getting heat out of the case either. So we’ve got to kind of think about what is my front intake look like mitt. Mike mentioned, he’s got a couple of cases fans up front. So those are going to pull in cool air from the outside, they’re going to pass through the system, it’s going to go past this GPU and CPU. In his case, he’s got the liquid cooler, but if you’ve got a standard tower or normal heat sink in there, it’s going to pick up some of that heat and then exhausted out the back fan, maybe the power supply, maybe some fans up top.
So really, for intake type of things, we’re going to typically have two or three fans up front, maybe some on the bottom of the case and then you’ll typically have a couple towards the top and one at the back. Now those can be anywhere from our standard. Fan sizes right now are about 120 millimeters to 140 millimeters used to mostly see the 80 millimeter fans Every now and then we’d get some 92. But then, I don’t know 10 years ago or so I think 120 millimeter really became the de facto standard. And it’s kind of stayed that way for most, most of the time, you can also get up to 200 millimeter fans, and those suckers are huge. The nice thing about those is they spend really slow most of the time, but they still move a good amount of air. So they’re super quiet, but they’re still very efficient. So and then, in addition to just those fan mounts, we want to think about airflow restriction. So what kind of material are we trying to pull air through? What is our ventilation look like at the front? Is it a mesh material that’s going to filter out some dust at the same time? Is it just some holes in the front? Is it some slats that lead air from in from the sides and then the air kind of goes through the case? Those are all sorts of things that we kind of want to look at to say, Hey, is this case going to do well for my build and the components I’m going to put inside of it? Anything you want to add there, Bob about case i mean design and thermals
Bob Buskirk [13:57]
that Yeah, the biggest thing is what is that The front panel what, how it’s designed and what it’s made out of Ryan said mesh mesh is typically high airflow, that’s what you want for the best cooling. Sadly, a lot of these new cases are all glass front with like a little slots on the side, so you don’t get that optimal cooling that you’d want. So, the biggest thing is, again, just what the front of the case is made out of, and then look at the placements of where fans are installed or can be installed and see if that’s blocked by anything. Do they have glass at the top as well, where then again, if even if you put bands in there kind of pointless. So those are the things you really want to look at. And how many fans You know, we’ve seen cases that have one that come with one fan, which is kind of pointless because if it’s in taking, there’s no other fan too, of course exhaust that, you know, the air as well. So, yeah, like I said, just mostly it’s that front panel because that’s gonna start your cooling processes as far as in taking cool air
Mike Wieger [15:00]
If that’s something I wish I would have focused on when I was building this obviously because we talked about I didn’t realize it till after I kind of got all the components in. But I’ve got the fractal design I think it’s got Focus G or something like that. And the top parts of the front’s great, it’s all mesh and it’s got like the metal mesh up in front of the foam mesh, so it’s all across the entire front so airflow is perfect, it pulls in a lot of fresh air but up top with a rad goes. You have to put the RAD with the hoses towards the back because the the 3.5 inch drive slots would block the hoses on the front end. Well what that means though, is the hoses stop, they rub against the back fan so the backhand doesn’t even spin. So I don’t have any rear exhaust here. And it’s it was a really tight fit up against the motherboard to up at the top too with that RAD up top. So it was just I’m sure there were cases out there that would have fit it a lot better. It works great. And actually I see no side effects from not having the back fan. I think actually from the front up through the Rad and the red pushes out the top works just fine for me, I don’t notice a difference. But again, when those things if I went back and read the reviews of this case, and they say exactly that, it just while I wasn’t looking for anything on cooling, I didn’t think I would have to do it but they say the exact thing with if you’re gonna put the route up top, you know, you’re going to be really confined for space.
Ryan Kerschner [16:20]
Yeah, a lot of times you’ll pay a little more for that extra space or the thought out design of, you know, cooling and efficiency. Some cases will even have if you’re going to do a radiator build, they’ll have a removable panel up top so you mount your radiator and fans to it and then drop that back down into the case for ease of installation. There’s all sorts of crazy awesome designs to make things more efficient. Obviously the price goes up with those typically but they do make things a lot easier but Yeah, I was gonna turn it around here. I’ve got a bunch of components off to the side here but kind of talking about fans we’ve got this is kind of a standard course air 120 millimeter LED fan. It’s just a single color led it’s not RGB or anything but this is just kind of your standard hundred 20 millimeter fan but I mentioned a 200 millimeter fan. And this is the nice tan and brown nocturia. So when you hold those up to each other, like, that’s the size difference we’re talking about between 120 and a 200. So, just to kind of give you an idea of what were some people are putting into case it
Mike Wieger [17:17]
was a benefit, there are a lot more airflow a lot lower RPM,
Ryan Kerschner [17:21]
right? Yeah, you’re this like on the back here. This is uh, we’ll see if it’ll focus in we pull back just a bit. It’s gonna not like it 800 I hadn’t read it yet it just for a second 100 RPMs This one here is a 12 volt fan. So it’s gonna only gonna spin at 800 RPM, which is a pretty slow when it comes to fan speeds, but it’s gonna, you know, be a lot more quiet and so push a good amount of air through your case or what have you got this.
Jim Collison [17:51]
Just Ryan does the direction matter like it whether I if I pull it from the front, push through the back, or if I pull it from the back and push it through the front does that really matter.
Ryan Kerschner [18:00]
So that’s where we get into things like positive and negative case pressure. You’ll see some people that end up with these cases that are just full of dust. And, you know, and, and for me, I always typically build and never end up with this problem. But I’m a fan of pulling in cooler air from the front or bottom, and exhausting, hot out the top and back. I mean, we’re just working with heat heat rises, let it do its thing, right and let the fans help out to do it. That’s my recommendation. I say that in the case that I have here does not again, follow those thermal recommendations. It has three fans on the bottom for intake which is okay, but then the front to actually blow air out the front and I say out the front, they run into a solid aluminum panel and then the air has to make a 90 degree turn to got some fence and then there’s a single exhaust at the back.
Jim Collison [18:49]
So it’s got those vents kind of they’re there but they’re hidden on the side. Yes, yeah.
Ryan Kerschner [18:54]
And only on one side because the solid glass panel on one side and then some kind of hidden on The other so the other non ideal, but it works.
Bob Buskirk [19:03]
The other thing it just like Ryan talked about dust is that most cases these days, the intakes, at least the intakes on the front will have a dust filter. So if you’re doing the air coming in from the back that back fan, it’s not going to have any type of dust filter. So whatever is going to fit through there is going to fly through and get into your system, which probably wouldn’t be the best thing.
Jim Collison [19:24]
Can you just blow it out? right can you just go blow it out?
Bob Buskirk [19:27]
Yeah, you could i i’ve seen pictures of people who haven’t done that in a long time.
Jim Collison [19:33]
Oh, yeah, I know I used to because you know, you guys are this way. You’re the you’re the neighborhood tech guy right? In the old days, with PCs and everybody had a PC. And so they’d bring him over you know, hey, this doesn’t work and they bring them over and the first thing I do is put them on the driveway and I get my leaf vac and I would open up every I take off every you know panel and then turn on the leaf vac in. Oh my god. I mean it was it was both disgusting and satisfying. To watch all that dust just kind of evacuated onto the, you know, on the driveway. So, I don’t know about you guys, I see because we’ve, you know, we’re in the phone era, I’m just seeing less and less PCs from the average consumer standpoint, we’re just, they’re either they’re buying them they’re not breaking as often or they’re not buying them anymore. It’s their phones, and I just I’m not doing the tech support like I used to, so I don’t see those computers anymore. If I do, they’re super old. You know, when they when they’re coming to somebody like, Hey, I can’t get my computer to boot and it’s because the CMOS battery cuz it’s 12 years old.
Ryan Kerschner [20:36]
You know, it’s like the laptop Bob got the other day to try. Yeah, it was run an XP or something. Right? It was
Bob Buskirk [20:41]
Yeah, my girlfriend’s sister had this computer like I need it for school. And I was like, okay, like, this should be easy, like, but it was from 2003 Maybe, yeah, or something like that. It was really old. I was like, This isn’t even worth fixing. And I couldn’t figure out What was wrong with and I feel like I’m pretty good at computers. And I was I even told Ryan He’s like, yeah, it’s not.
Jim Collison [21:07]
It’s not you kind of forget. You’re like, oh, how did we troubleshoot these things like what tools that we use?
Bob Buskirk [21:14]
It doesn’t even have like, I’m so used to Windows 10. And you just go in the, you know, you go down and you just go in the search to search for your settings. And I’m like, Wait a second, I actually have to go through and find these. And
Mike Wieger [21:24]
yeah, so long as they’re gaming though, there will be a huge market for these computers. I was shocked my, my brother in law who’s 22 now called me yesterday, he and he is not not a tech guy. He’s getting better just because I am and so he’s able to do some stuff, but not tech idol has always been a console stream or get gamer. He’s like, Hey, I think I’m gonna build my first gaming PC. Like, how do I even start with this? Like, what where do I go? And it’s because of Twitch, he watches Twitch and he actually wants to maybe try streaming. And then he’s like, well, I just know it’s a lot easier if you play on the same computer and I’m like, Yeah, you’re right. It is If you’re just starting out and, and he wants to get to that, so I mean, you see how many people are on Twitch and I think with gaming especially, and young kids, I think gaming computers are taking off more than they ever have before. kind of crazy. I mean, it was actually funny sight on the popularity of Twitch and gaming. Tim the tap man yesterday had this streak going. And he’s one of the biggest streamers and he could not get a win on the silly little game. Yeah. 347,000 people watching him yesterday, when he finally got his when
Ryan Kerschner [22:31]
he did get a win. Got it? Yeah, been following that.
Mike Wieger [22:34]
So he got it yesterday. 347,000 mean, that’s a city. And I think it broke some records, broke some of his personal records. He usually averages around 30 or 40,000. So 347,000 just shows you the popularity of online gaming is it’s just crazy. Mike if you’re gonna you so you need to tell him first thing. If he’s gonna build his own computer. He needs to go over to think computers.org already.
Jim Collison [22:58]
Okay, awesome. Yeah, let’s go.
Mike Wieger [23:00]
Here’s your reviews because he was like he’s all into reviews and he watches before he buys something he will watch 20 YouTube videos. I said dude I guarantee the computer parts you are gonna be looking for they have it over here just go read the review. I said and if they don’t have it asked me and then we’ll go from there I said but they got everything over there so I already did it was the easiest one to recommend nicer we didn’t expect that we didn’t even set we did. I forgot about I was like wait, these are the guys I just told him about last night so it’s nice.
Jim Collison [23:27]
Ryan, could I retro. Okay, we talked about putting filters in front. If I had a box and it didn’t come with a filter can are there retro quick kits that would allow me to maybe install that on the front or do some things to filter that error before it comes in maybe
Ryan Kerschner [23:42]
maybe not a hit, but I’m sure there’s some things you could do a lot of times so the fan is typically on, you know on an OEM PC is either going to be mounted to the inside metal or the exterior. If it’s mounted on the interior. A lot of times you can pop that plastic front off and maybe put some mesh in front of the metal grill that’s their that’ll kind of do some of that it’s going to reduce the airflow. right because that fan was Specht for whatever ventilation they put in there from the factory. So it will kind of reduce the amount of airflow but it’ll keep help keep some of that dust out for sure. See, I have a Cooler Master, I have one of those very popular cooler, Cooler Master land, you know that square up, they must have sold a million of those things, right? That has a really nice front grille. Could I retro something on the front of that? No, probably figure something out because it’s, it gets pretty dusty.
Jim Collison [24:29]
I actually just use the grill is kind of a dust collector, you know, you go in there from time to time like that off in it. It does that nicely for you. So I could if I don’t if I’m not currently in is that a good idea to try and capture the dust before it gets into the computer? Or is it six to one half a dozen to the other?
Ryan Kerschner [24:48]
I mean, it kind of depends on your environment, right as well. I’ve done so many builds over the last 20 years and I never end up with a dusty, dirty interior. I don’t know if it’s because I’m just building them just right keep things clean, whatever the case may be. I don’t I’m not a huge like, proponent of filters. I think they’re a nice thing to have, but I don’t think they make or break a case by any means. Okay?
Jim Collison [25:13]
Okay. Good. Good to know. All right, let’s focus a little bit on CPUs, because when we think about and it will save GPUs a little bit because that is an area. Like I remember when GPUs were just nothing. And then they put little fans on them. And then they put bigger fans like the whole world, the GPUs exploded. So we’ll cover that one next, but we think about CPU today, I would think with the modern CPU, one, everything has to have some kind of cooling on it. But now you’ve got a couple kinds of different options. So let’s kind of walk me through if I’m going to, if I’m going to cool my CPU, what kind of options do I have besides just regular passive?
Ryan Kerschner [25:49]
Yeah, so I’ve got quite a plethora of equipment and it really shows how much tech I hoard and probably should get rid of, but I’m one of those. Hey, I might need that cooler someday. Today’s that day right, bro podcast for the podcast. Yes, shake your head Bob, I see all the boxes behind you. So right here is a cooler that a lot of people are probably pretty familiar with. This is the stock Intel heat sinks. This one came with my 4790 k quad core eight thread processor. I have a 4770
Jim Collison [26:21]
Gen coming from six years ago. Same stock cooler. Measure the temperatures for what I’m using it for just fine.
Ryan Kerschner [26:29]
Yeah, so we have let me use this as a pointer I guess. So we have a copper, it’s really going to focus on my face but specifically, I had that other camera set perfectly. So we’ve got like a copper centerpiece here that’s going to make contact with our CPUs, integrated heat spreader. That’s a little metal piece that’s on top of the the CPU that we put in so that makes good contact via thermal paste or some sort of pre applied thermal material, and then it spreads out into a cheaper aluminum heatsink. Right, so we’ve got copper, which transfers heat better than the aluminum, but it’s more expensive than aluminum. So that’s why we’ve got kind of those double materials there. This is a pretty standard cooler, you’re not going to get good overclocks out of this, if anything, but it does the job and it’s pretty quiet
Jim Collison [27:15]
and for most for most people who are just using their computer, which has been a lot of people anymore, but for most people that stock colors going to be fine for where we’re headed, where we’re getting a lot more enthusiastic gamers in here. We’re getting kind of serious, so walk through some of those.
Ryan Kerschner [27:29]
Yeah, so stepping things up a little bit is this is a stock cooler from my latest CPU. This is the Wraith AMD Wraith is that the race spire, I always forget what this one is called the that’s not the spire. I forget what it’s called, but it’s all I will look it up. Yeah, there we go. So again, we have a copper base. I’m going to get this focus one of these times copper base with heat pipes here so we can see these heat pipes that actually make direct contact with the CPU again, And this is designed to cool my eight core 16 thread ryzen 730 800 x CPU so again we have the copper base switching over to aluminum heat pipe or I’m sorry aluminum fins but we have the heat pipes that run through there and we’re cooled by about a 99 millimeter fan. So we’ve stepped up from Intel’s stock cooling and AMD is very similar cooling that they used to have but these heat pipes you know allow us to bring the heat away from the CPU a little bit more. The fans help to provide a surface to allow the fan to blow air across them for more efficient cooling.
Jim Collison [28:40]
How much more efficient is a fan like that compared to just the stock fan? Do you know efficiency wise this kind of thinking like is it gives you twice as much I mean just throw out a you can even make up a number if you want but
Ryan Kerschner [28:54]
I mean the fan design between them the fan itself, the design, those blades are very similar between the two So I don’t know that I’d say it’s the fan so much as the heatsink does the sink itself
Jim Collison [29:04]
really keeps it cooler like I mean, that’s enough. Absolutely.
Ryan Kerschner [29:08]
And as a higher thermal threshold, right, you’re going to be able to get more headroom and cooling out of these.
Jim Collison [29:14]
Give the chip hot, you can get the chip hotter and it’ll keep the core
Ryan Kerschner [29:17]
Yeah, not necessarily get it hotter but allow it to stay cooler longer got it. Right. And then we have a really popular cooler here from coolermaster. If anybody’s been in the game for any amount of time in the last five years or more, this is the Hyper 212 EVO. As you can see, it’s a lot taller. Again, we have the heat pipes, copper heat pipes that make direct contact with the CPU on the bottom, a ton of fins here and then a nice fan to keep the cool. Really nice thing about this is it’s 25 $30 you get it on sale. And it’s one of the best air coolers out there. They’ve been making it forever. And just it’s the best bang for your buck. If anybody ever asked like hey, I just want to improve cooler for air, but I don’t want to spend a ton of money hypercube one Though done,
Mike Wieger [30:01]
and it’s amazing how much of a difference so I had I don’t something’s very similar to that but I went from a stock cooler in my Unraid Box. So in a small to you there’s an A for you server chassis, it’s, I can’t remember it’s for you actually maybe to you either way in there I had the stock cooler it’s just an Intel 3770 but you know when you’re using it as a server that’s always on doing a lot of transcoding with Plex things like that I upgrade to something very similar to what Ryan just showed, and I cut off 30 degrees from my i was i was i was up in the 130s and I brought it down and now it maxes out at you know, 9099 100 and 100 200, maybe 107. But right around there, I was shocked like from a $30 cooler. I think it’s one I bought and could make that big of a difference which is gonna save my CPU in the long run, especially if you have some that you run a lot.
Ryan Kerschner [30:51]
And then I just want to show this one this is a older swiftech this was for cooling a Athlon 64 I’m trying to remember the Model number 6400, maybe. But this is a huge copper base. It’s very, it’s really heavy, but it looks like a bunch of screws in there, which is essentially what it is. But all these ridges along, each one of these pins just adds more surface area to the cooler. So we would have a fan mounted on the top and blowing down on it. Obviously the 120 is too big. So we’d have like an 80 millimeter probably on this cooler. But just kind of a cool, neat design that I just engineer forever. I
Jim Collison [31:28]
guess that’s a real engineering like how do we get the most surface area? Yep. to dissipate the seat? That’s absolutely Bob Do you find anything while you were looking?
Bob Buskirk [31:36]
Uh, the the AMD colors to the wrath prism.
Race present? Yeah, yes.
Ryan Kerschner [31:43]
It’s got RGB lighting in the fan as well as a ring around that you can control. So yeah, we’ve got things like RGB lighting and coolers now is that
when that comes with your CPU, that is the stock cooler that comes with this nice color.
Bob Buskirk [31:59]
Ryan, if you Gonna bring the coolermaster cooler up real quick. Yeah, just so I can so if people don’t understand exactly how it works just hold it up. So so you see those heat pipes at the bottom. Your heat gets transferred from your CPU, and then the heat goes up into that heatsink stack, where it again transfers to the heatsink. Those are all those fins and then your fan takes that heat and dissipates it out through your case. So typically out through the heatsink and then out through one of your exhaust fans either on the top or the rear of your case. It’s kind of how that works. Right. You
Jim Collison [32:39]
want to line that up with the directional in the direction of the air in Absolutely. Okay, yeah,
Ryan Kerschner [32:45]
yeah. So if the front of your kit cases here and you’ve got fans blowing in this way, we want to continue that air. So then we’ve got the fan that’s spinning, obviously pushing through the heatsink and out the back of the case or the top, another point to make Because these aren’t just solid copper rods, most of the time, on good coolers, they’re actually hollow and we’ll have a liquid or gas in there, that heats up turns into a gas goes up to change forms, right and then cools to a liquid drops back down and just complete that cycle over and over. Right next
Jim Collison [33:21]
cycle. A couple comments from the chat room. Joe says great cooler, crappy fan. The one I think that he was referring to the one that you’re showing right there. Jim also says, Look at that the one you showed looks like a blooming onion. It
Ryan Kerschner [33:37]
does take a bite. But
Jim Collison [33:40]
yeah, and then Tony says or my nail gun went crazy. So that’s also a possibility Tony’s got that. He says he’s got that cooler, I think that you were showing there. Right. So that’s kind of the upgrade from just stock cooler. And now we’re talking about upgrade. These are still heat sinks that you’re not going to Running you know, yeah, you’ve got some air or some kind of liquid in those pipes. But this is this is not traditional liquid cool No. And this is done nuts like the whole liquid space has just gotten crazy good. And so let’s let’s talk a little bit about that
Ryan Kerschner [34:16]
I will say I’ll say one more thing real quick before we move on to that there’s so this is like a tower cooler and there’s there’s more advanced coolers for higher performance where they’ll have a second tower next to it and the second fan in between, so we get just extra surface area to to cool CPU. So there’s a big two that I know Bob has reviewed. What are some of the others that you’ve looked at the cife
Bob Buskirk [34:41]
safe ninja five to start full choir? Yeah, of course they’re a 500 Be quiet makes one they’re pretty much any major cooling company has a massive like just massive air cooler. That’s around the 80 to $100 range which is made from The highest end CPUs out there. Basically people for overclocking, do you, Bob, do you get what you pay for what these fans are? Is there a sweet spot in there where typically, if you’re going for the high end, at $200, you do get what you pay for they they’re all made for a specific thermal limit. So you know what you can push these coolers to. I would say though, just like with what Ryan said, that hyper 212 any of the hyper two one twos, they’re like 20 to $35. And the further performance that you get out of them how quiet they are, how easy to install they are, that is the kind of what I would recommend anybody because it’s easy to install one because a lot of these bigger coolers, just think you have this massive two tower cooler and then you’re trying to connect it in there. It’s it’s a lot of work where the hyper two on twos decently small and it doesn’t make a whole lot of noise and does have much better performance than your typical stuff. cooler.
Jim Collison [36:00]
So for us for a cooler for the whole unit if I was in that 30 to $50 range, that’s probably kind of the sweet spot for these. Yeah. And you can get you can if you just burn in money, you can do that and go higher. But if you’re seeing something cheap, you know if it’s a $15 on Amazon, you probably want to avoid it. Right?
Bob Buskirk [36:20]
Yeah. And like I said, I think that the, the hyper 212 is just proved itself over. There’s, I think five or six different versions or generations of the cooler. They’ve all had great performance. If you go on Amazon, the reviews are all typically five star it’s just that it’s just the proven cooler in its price range. And I think that price ranges very good for what you’re getting.
Jim Collison [36:43]
But before we move on and talk about liquid coolers for box fans, same same idea of In other words, if I’m spending 15 to $25 for a fan is that kind of a sweet spot for those and I should avoid the six and $7 fans that are kind of out there. Is that right?
Bob Buskirk [37:01]
Typically, it all depends on what you’re trying to cool. If you’re doing just like typical air cooling, if you’re doing fans that are going to go on a radiator, there’s obviously different prices in there.
Ryan Kerschner [37:11]
Yeah. If you want RGB, yeah. single color LED. Do you want to addressable RGB? fans?
Jim Collison [37:18]
How much does RGB add to the to the price?
Ryan Kerschner [37:21]
Jim Collison [37:23]
I guess it depends.
Ryan Kerschner [37:24]
There’s a huge range.
Bob Buskirk [37:25]
Yeah. So typically, these days, we’d see if you want to get a set of three RGB fans, three 120 millimeter RGB fans that come with a controller so that you can either connect them to software or you can have like a button that will change the different things. Typically, those are around 70 to $110 for three fans. And then there’s more advanced ones that that like the Coursera ones that are super advanced that that I have that have 36 RGB LEDs and each I think they’re 154 three, or something like that. So
Jim Collison [38:00]
Do they all have their own address? Are they all addressable? Every
Bob Buskirk [38:03]
Yeah, every all 36 RGB’s in the fan are individually addressable. So you could set them to different colors. You could have each one doing a different effect. It’s and it’s all through software too. So it’s pretty, pretty crazy.
Jim Collison [38:15]
Wieger You should be impressed that I knew how to say,
Mike Wieger [38:19]
are they addressed addressable? I was. Because we’re talking about RGB. You’re not an RGB guy.
Jim Collison [38:25]
No, I’m thinking that’s that that short woman in the Supreme Court, isn’t it? Isn’t that? That’s rbg. Yeah. All right. Well, okay, so I don’t I don’t know what I’m talking about. Let’s let’s dive into liquid. Where are we when we think about the different kinds of cooling that’s available for us that way. Ryan? Where are we at today?
Ryan Kerschner [38:43]
Yeah, so we’re a lot further along than we were when people were first getting into it. You would hear crazy stories of I had a friend that used old heater core out of some old Jeep or something as a radiator and these pond pumps that you could get at home. Home Depot and tubing with the you know, the ratchet style crimp, you know, connector. So like that was way back in the day before companies really started focusing on this market now we have these awesome kits, like the one that Mike has, it’s got, you know, it’s all in one, but it can expand via these really nice quick connect no leak connections. It’s got RGB lighting on the fans, you know, they can have controllers to control the speed of the fan or the speed of the pump to circulate the fluid inside, all sorts of just awesome monitoring and integration throughout your whole system. So all in ones are kind of what we focus on when we talk about liquid cooling.
We have looked at some Do It Yourself component by component kits and I actually have one that I was really hoping would show up for today but it’s actually going to be here tomorrow that I’m really excited to build for the system here. But I’ve got a cooler here from Coursera This is the h 115 i, man there’s so many so many was this h 115 i RGB Pro X t. So I’m going to hold it up here. Obviously we have a radiator right and this is a 280 millimeter radiator. So what that means is this will fit to 140 millimeter fans so that means we have 280 millimeter radiator they go side by side here and we obviously have our little mounting holes at the corner. So pretty standard radiator for an all in one cooler. We have our permanently attached tubes that go down into a all in one pump and cooling block. So again, we see the copper here, this section up here so we have a copper base and a pump built all into one. So we have a little Coursera logo here and around here we have some RGB lighting.
Jim Collison [40:58]
Ryan are those serviceable at all, or is it It literally is all in one, you’re not gonna you don’t want to call it all that not user serviceable. Okay, yeah, there’s no easy way to refill this just the fans will push the air through the radiator or does it draw it through there. So
Ryan Kerschner [41:13]
that’s that you have no options. This kit comes with the option to obviously this is typically either going to mount at the front of your case, and you would typically have either a fan on either side that actually got a different rating. demonstrate this a little better. This one’s not attached to anything, but does have fans on it. So in this current configuration, when these are spinning, they’re going to be pushing air through the radiator. That’s my recommended setup 99% of the time is to push air through and you want to make sure that you have a fan that’s designed for higher static pressure, right because there’s a lot more resistance to push air through the fins of a radiator than just a string. Standard case fan. So a lot of times you’ll see fans that are designed with like an sp and they’re named for static pressure.
And some of them are AF for airflow. So that’s something you definitely want to take a look at, and all the statistics that are typically available. So that’s my recommendation typically is to push, you could do a push poll and have a fan on each side, as long as you’ve got them oriented correctly, get a little doubling up there. Some people like don’t like the look of a fan. So they’ll put the fan up top and have it pull through, I just think you get a little better performance with push. I wouldn’t say that’s a guarantee or anything.
And people go back and forth on that all the time. The arguments are always there, what’s better push pull, whatever the case may be, I like to typically either have a radiator up front in the case pulling in cool air from the outside with the fans and pushing it through the rest of my case, or mounting it at the top and not even introducing that hot air to the case. If it’s up top and the only heat is being transferred through those liquids. It’s not even having a chance to hit up the rest of the PC and it’s exhausting and straight off the top.
Mike Wieger [43:06]
I followed your advice there. And I’ve been really surprised because so all my CPU he, it doesn’t even touch the case, because of the top right and the five of Nan’s in, like you suggested pushing through the radiator about the top, and my GPU stays so much cooler that way, because all that heat isn’t in the case. So my GPU just has the stock fan on it. And even when I’m pinned there, it’s the only heat in the case is really coming from the GPU. And it’s got fresh air coming from the front, right across the GPU. That goes up, and it might be introducing a little more heat to the RAD, right?
Because you’re putting the if there is a little heat in there from the GPU, it’s gonna pull that air right across the RAD, but it hasn’t affected me at all. And it’s been great to keep that GPU to lower temp. Yeah, you’re exactly right. Yeah, you pull in that cool air from the outside and push it out through the radiator. Now if you have a dual setup where you’re cooling, you know, maybe a CPU and a GPU and you have two radiators or Right that that heats just gonna stay and cycle out. So don’t worry, sir. I think the hardest part in all this though, can we just be honest as a new guy to all this? I was trying to follow Ryan’s recommendation.
I kept getting my fans installed backwards. And I would go in and also the one was pushing and one was polling and they say, well look at the sticker. And I didn’t know what, okay, I’m looking at sticker. But does that mean it’s pushing or pulling? That is the hardest part about installing fans is knowing which way is pushed in which way is pull? Or maybe I’m just not smart. That’s probably more like, it’s probably user error. But man, that was difficult.
Jim Collison [44:32]
How do we tell Ryan? Is there a way to just look at the fan and to know Yeah, yeah, I mean, I didn’t arrow like,
Ryan Kerschner [44:38]
when you get I mean, when you know, you know, he’s just kind of figure it out, right, the way the blades go, but a lot of times this fan doesn’t have it, but a lot of times on the side right here. There’ll be an arrow to the direction of the air and the way that the blades should be spinning,
Jim Collison [44:54]
right? Yeah, I get really angry when I get a fan and I can’t I don’t know. But yeah, no worries. thing is doing and some of them don’t give you enough pressure. Like, you put your hand in the back and you put your hand in the front and hard
Mike Wieger [45:08]
I take a tissue and I just it sucks it to the side. That’s my test. Not not it doesn’t like it and I go like this way. Yeah, the tissue test is I think I just
Jim Collison [45:19]
splash water on it and see from there,
Mike Wieger [45:23]
but it’s a pain if you get their whole rat installed and you realize you have your fans backwards, which is exactly what I did. I had the hole written in this tiny case I told you guys it’s not fun to work in. And then everything was backwards,
Ryan Kerschner [45:34]
especially with with the you’ve got to not only power the fans, but if they’re RGB, you’ve got those cables to connect to your controller. So all that lighting Yeah,
Mike Wieger [45:42]
and usually those cables are right up at the top of the motherboard underneath where the rods gonna hit. That’s where I was trying to get my fingers up in there and it was it’s a fun. I had built a lot of computers but they’d all been Junker, you know, who cares put on a box, you know, their Unraid builds or things like that. I had never built a pretty PC before and That’s a whole different ballgame when you’re having to deal with cable management fans all that crazy stuff.
Jim Collison [46:06]
Ryan just case temperature matters right inside how that that it affects everything right? Is there any Are there any solutions a little off topic and not in the notes but for cooling for the hard drives like so, you know we we are seeing more, you know, larger spinners and some people are putting those spinners in units to use them as data drives. Are we addressing those I mean, I know there’s case fans you can put up in front of them and some of those kinds of things but are there any specific cooling options for for drives,
Ryan Kerschner [46:40]
there are I can’t reach it. But I have an older like the old Western Digital. I’m trying to remember the name of them but they came in I think they called it an ice pack. It was like a two and a half inch drive and a three and a half inch chase right and it had it was just aluminum and would transfer the heat VSM heat pads to keep that that drive cool for server environments, things like that. Bob can talk a little probably a little more on like current drives NVMe drives things like that that come with Yeah, he was like looked at him, I can grab. Right so with with the newer drives like with like two and a half inch SSD right here and over one. A lot of times with these drives, they’re not going to get hot enough to overwork like the metal body on this. If you open one up there’s typically a thermal pad that makes contact from the chips themselves to the the case and just dissipates heat and uses that whatever airflow is available inside the case to keep it cool. Regarding NVMe drives, typically on those we want the memory chips actually to be a little warm, but we want the controller to stay cooler. So you’ll either have a little foil sticker, there’s usually a sticker on your NVMe drive those two drives. A lot of times they’ll have Copper sticker there to actually spread some of that heat out or you’ve got that drive the WD Black sn 750, which I have in my PC, as well as a nice little aluminum overlay there that was designed by ek. They’re a big water cooling company, they paired up with Western Digital there.
Bob Buskirk [48:17]
And this one as well. This is pure copper on this one.
Jim Collison [48:22]
That’s just all passive, right? I mean, there’s Yeah, you’re just trying to dissipate the heat off of the chip.
Bob Buskirk [48:28]
Yeah, so the thing with the current gen storage, PCI Express storage is that these controllers will get so hot that they’ll actually throttle so you’ll, your performance will you know, as you typically when you write to the drive, it will be at its top performance, and then you’ll see it dropped dramatically. It’s because these, the controllers are actually getting too hot.
Jim Collison [48:50]
And we’ve seen that especially like Samsung, the first gen of the PCI Express drives had that problem. So you see a lot of motherboards actually. Come with heat sinks for the M dot two drives. But but I might want to think in this cooling solution, I might want to think about where that where that drive is and see if I can get some air right get passed by it to kind of move some of that heat away, right? Whether it’s gonna be up underneath the board or it’s gonna be sitting on top of the board. If I’m not pulling, it just got me thinking if I’m not pulling the CPU heat away, that may be collecting in a in a poorly vented case, that may be collecting in the case and then that the the NVMe is going to is going to is going to get stifled, it’s going to get suffocated. Basically,
Bob Buskirk [49:37]
if you see that, I mean, that can be with any components. We see that a lot lately on motherboards with their power delivery components on the motherboard. They’ll get so hot where you’ll their CPU will throttle as well. Just from that. So yeah, it’s just you have to have good airflow throughout the case to Porter pretty much to go across most of your components.
Jim Collison [49:59]
Okay, not too good. It’s a really good reminder, I get into this every once in a while we’ve got I’ve got a board that’s got some software where you can monitor the temperature and I throw those up. I just wish that was in Windows to be honest. Yeah, like, why can’t it just be a part of the dashboard and windows, but I probably watch it a lot more I do I have gotten into the habit since I’m doing some mining and some of the stuff of just keeping the task manager up so I can kind of see what’s going on. I like like, Mike, I like to monitor that. I don’t worry about my CPU temps. But doing this burst coin mining that we’ve been doing for the last couple years. I’ve blown through a couple drives that I know they died because of heat. And I got me thinking like, Oh, I should have probably vented my hard drives a little bit better. Because there’s a big difference on a hard drive especially on a spinner. There’s a big difference between it running passive and a little bit of air running across it just a little bit. Right, keeps it so much cooler. From from an outside at least a case temperature perspective. So then we didn’t we weren’t going to that wasn’t in the notes, but it was kind of got me thinking that’s the other performance piece in your case inside the case that could go horribly wrong. If it’s not if you don’t have some air going across it. Yeah.
Bob Buskirk [51:10]
Okay. And if you want to get into monitoring, Jim, if you want to check out an app called hw info that will give you pretty much every sensor that’s available on your computer down to speeds. Power voltage temperatures, yeah, everything and you can have this massive this. Yeah, you can have this massive display of everything that you want to see.
Mike Wieger [51:35]
Yeah, that’s what feeds into rain meter, right. I know. Yeah. I think my rain my rain meter uses hw info
Jim Collison [51:42]
when when I was starting to lose some of the early drives. And I was just trying to figure out like, hey, how do I get in here and monitor this on a regular basis? I tested a couple and I think that hw info was one. I think that’s free. It’s not a free app. Yeah. One we should have added two skin overs. List of free apps from last week that we’re talking on. But that’s another that’s another good one to throw in there. Okay. From Ryan, you said you didn’t have it to show but when we think about custom is that are we really to the point where it’s kind of just, like snap them in and they’re together and fill the thing up and you’re good? Or is it a little more
Ryan Kerschner [52:21]
there’s a little more to it Bob was so the all in ones right? They’re all in one for a reason. They’ve got sort of a reservoir, a pump, CPU block, the fans, the radiator, the tubes, all of that right. So if we want to get custom with it, well now I have to determine a CPU block. So what am i AMD or Intel and what what sort of platform on my on there? Sometimes the block will work for AMD or Intel. It just kind of depends on the company you’re going with. radiators, right, we can think about thickness and fin density, right. how dense densely packed are the fins in the radiator that’s kind of going to determine well do I need more static pressure on my fans in order to push air through there to coolest properly. So I want to go soft tubing, or do I want to go hard tubing on the cooling right? Our tubing looks really nice and looks really good but it’s a lot harder to do than soft tubing. And then we have to think about fittings, what sort of bends and angles
Am I going to need to successfully route liquid all the way through all these components, pump and reservoir so each each of these components takes some time. Some companies that design and offer components offer like little building systems webpages where you say oh, here’s here’s my components, and they’ll kind of build out for you exactly, you know what components you need to call it and they’ll say you need this many fittings and this waterblock for that motherboard and CPU and this one for this graphics card and we know your case takes a you know 240 or 360 millimeter radiator and they just set you up Here’s a bundle package for you give us money, and we’ll give you parts.
So you can, you can join it a multitude of ways. Now, so just take take some time and I always recommend asking someone that’s familiar with it to kind of look over your components, right? So I ordered up a bunch of components from alphacool those are the ones that are going to be here tomorrow and I reached out to our friend Dave and alphacool said, Hey, I’m pretty pretty sure that I’ve got everything lined out for this but can you take a look at this just to make sure everything’s good? And you know, he went through the parts?
Yep, everything looks good there, but I’d recommend maybe some different fittings to allow for some flexibility in the future if I ever wanted to change something right. So definitely something to look look out for. There’s a great subreddit for liquid cooling. Most of the component manufacturers have a message board or community discord, something like that, that you can go and get help at as well.
Jim Collison [54:52]
So Ryan, if you had a choice in money, you know, they’re close in price. Do you go all in one or do you would you do custom
Ryan Kerschner [55:00]
Cuz I mean, I would go custom, they’re not the same price by any means. I will spend so much more on custom, but I would definitely go custom. That’s what I’m really. I can’t wait for tomorrow. Okay, I can’t wait to get the spot
Jim Collison [55:11]
to circle back around with you, Bob, what about you custom or
Bob Buskirk [55:15]
custom if somebody else does it because I actually don’t do custom water cooling, I would love to learn how it’s just a time constraint like right now in my main system, I run an IO. But a IO is just ease of use. It’s, it’s, it’s the water cooling or liquid cooling that you can install and be a total beginner to do and it and they work and you don’t have to service them. And most of them have at least a three year warranty is that you’re pretty much good to go on all that’s all the nightmares that I heard early when it came to liquid cooling was a pipe, you know, bursting or, you know, coolant all over your parts. Yeah, and
Jim Collison [55:57]
it kind of early on. It’s like you No I don’t know if I want to I ruined stuff enough stuff as it is I don’t know if I need to ruin it you know with my own cool
Ryan Kerschner [56:08]
it’s definitely a possibility more so with putting it together yourself the all in ones they do a pretty good job of, of getting them sealed up at the factory is
Bob Buskirk [56:16]
a couple that actually I think that a company called Deep cool they make an AI oh they say it’s completely leak proof like it will never leave the guarantee it. But yeah, most of these you don’t hear about that. Like especially the CIOs you don’t hear about it at all.
Jim Collison [56:31]
I think we don’t pass that. Yeah. I think those days are over, but in the early days seemed like I was here. Yeah. It did kind of keep me away from it because I was just like, I don’t know if I want one more thing to have to monitor all the time. And I was hearing stories of it leaking and then ruining a motherboard or ruining a GPU or something like that, you know, that’s the last thing you do is want to buy a 1500 dollar GPU and then have coolant.
Oh, yeah, right. I think all over it, right. It’s getting Expensive now yeah let’s let’s talk GPUs really quick because I think this is an area where you know, the the acceleration of our of our GPUs has been ridiculous like just if we think in the last five years of where we’ve gone where we came from and where we’d gone to and just the price of them as well. And I again I’m you know, I have 210 60s in my my box, side by side, by the way, they cool different that way that that one underneath the other one doesn’t do quite as well, right. So I have to,
I rigged up some cooling underneath it, so that it would at least have some something moving on it to keep it from from overheating. And I seen some aftermarket cooling options for GPU. So let me start with this question. I’m getting a GPU today, because I’m gonna I want a game thrown in them in a box that I have. Do I have to worry about anything beyond the stock, the stock cooler that comes with it? At that point, or is that going to be good enough for me?
Bob Buskirk [58:03]
I think it for the most part, it should be good. The The thing with the especially if you’re going to get, say a non reference design GPU that’s like, say one from a Soos gigabyte MSI, they make their own custom cooling solution for the graphics card. So they, they test it, it’s typically better than if you got say, like the Nvidia founders edition card or the AMD the stock AMD card. It’s going to have better cooling. When you get into aftermarket cooling solutions for GPUs. It’s it’s a little tricky because you basically have to disassemble the card that you’ve already bought. Which you can break things that way.
Jim Collison [58:52]
They’re like, yeah, you look at him and you’re like, Oh, I don’t know if I want to take a screw this thing. Yeah. bands seem a little, you know, they’re not they seem a little more dainty. They seem a little more precision maybe is the right try instead of dainty, that was a bad word. But you know what I mean, just delicate and, and so i that is an area but I’ve watched YouTube videos of folks modding these and putting coolers on them and in running just running them hard. And I imagine you could do that as well.
Ryan Kerschner [59:26]
Yeah, it’s not I would say it’s definitely not as popular to replace the cooler on a GPU or a video card with an aftermarket cooler for a while they were there were companies that were making them where you could get some improved cooling performance and you know, maybe some noise reduction, but the the coolers that come on these that are you know, two and three PCI slot thick and just these beefy coolers and backplates they’re going to do a perfect job for everybody where you really come into taking these apart is going to that custom liquid cooling design, where you have to take all the screws apart and Cut little pieces of thermal transfer material in order to make contact between you know your voltage regulators and your your chips and everything with the the block itself.
That’s when it really gets complex, complicated, but it is not about that at all. I have I had this is older, older type stuff back in the day for like GeForce 8800 like Gs. So this was, I mean, you’re over 10 years ago, but I had I did a review on a Arctic cooler and it was just as big you could use it passively. It was it was this big as the video card just an array of aluminum fans similar to some of these, you know coolers that we looked at for a CPU but they adapted that technology to a GPU and instead of the cooler making contact with each of the memory modules and things like that they gave you the little stick on heatsink is for your memory, right so then you could strap fans onto these coolers. But I’m really like, excited but nervous to tear into my 2017 Super. You know, I mean, it’s a it’s a $530 card when I bought it, that’s a lot. That’s, that’s the most I’ve ever paid for a GPU, right? And you go up a level of the 2080 and higher and you’re over $1,000 so I’m excited but I’m nervous.
Bob Buskirk [1:01:21]
That’s my biggest thing. That’s why I haven’t done it. So I’m just like, I look at my computer and I’m like, more excited than nervous though for sure. Yeah.
Ryan Kerschner [1:01:29]
I think I’m more nervous to get the footage right and make sure everything goes smoothly with that that process it scared me to death
Jim Collison [1:01:35]
I wouldn’t I know you know, I’m gonna I do a whole bunch of other things. I just be afraid I’d screw something up. You know, in the process trip something out. Mike would you get $1,000 GPU Are you gonna get a mod it with a with a cooler?
Mike Wieger [1:01:54]
No, no, that stuff scares me. Um, you know, it’s funny. Historically. I’ve been such However the manufacturer sent it keep it that way. And I have when I got into building computers, I kind of started to get away from that a little bit and really tear stuff up and especially when I even in my regular life, right, like make it useful, right? I’m like, well, it’s just it’s machine is supposed to do stuff, make it more useful if you can mod it. But something like that that expensive, huh?
Ryan Kerschner [1:02:20]
I see that my good. If you had like a 20 series card alphacool has their newer like, heat sinks and coolers for those that will tie right into that cooler that you’ve got. So those quick disconnects, it comes with those. You can just expand it. Boom.
Mike Wieger [1:02:36]
Well, that might give me that might give me
the 1660s I think the form factor is pretty close. What if I could get it to fit?
Ryan Kerschner [1:02:46]
I don’t know about that one.
Mike Wieger [1:02:49]
I’ll go grab a 2070.
Jim Collison [1:02:51]
Guys on GPUs. Any other any other thoughts on cooling or, you know, for most people, here’s what I hear you saying for most people stop cooling is going to be just fine. Make sure your case is ventilated, well, it’s going to do its job, especially if you can get the CPU heat out of there to begin with, that may be a great way or great way to start it. Otherwise, it’s a pretty extreme situation, and to maybe go beyond stock GPU agree with that.
Ryan Kerschner [1:03:18]
Yeah, one thing I will mention in was kind of a trend and kind of goes back and forth is vertically mounting your GPU. So instead of standard horizontal mounting, where we’ve got some cases where they’ll mount it vertically, right, sometimes that gets pushed up to the side of the case towards you know, especially on glass side panel cases, well, now you’re starving those fans for airflow and they don’t get as much. So that’s something to consider there. Right. Some cases
Jim Collison [1:03:47]
So you get your drill out and you just drill through that glass exact
Ryan Kerschner [1:03:50]
some some cases, they’ll make brackets so you can modify a case that wasn’t designed for that to accommodate that. But yeah, again, you’re going to be Maybe at a different positioning than what would be ideal for a card.
Jim Collison [1:04:04]
So if you’re thinking about a build all together, and we’re thinking, it sounds to me, like I really need to kind of if I want performance, I don’t really need to put all the parts together first, like, what am I putting him in there? So what’s the CPU? What’s the GPU and I’m going to talk about four hard drives. How what what are their thermal properties? In other words, how hot do they run my even looking at the specs to be like, what are their max temperature?
If I’m gaming, or he probably gets some examples, then you probably want to do I mean, it sounds like to me, I spent a bunch of time on the case at that point to say, Okay, this going these parts going in this kind of case, because it’ll allow for this kind of cooling or it’ll allow for these kinds of fans. Is that kind of at this point, instead of picking the cool case first and jamming the parts in is that the other way around?
Ryan Kerschner [1:04:54]
I think people go in both directions. Some people that that cases like everything to them. If that’s kind of how it was with this case, I love the design. I know it’s not the most thermally efficient, but I’m going to deal with with those those issues. Bob, any thoughts on that?
Bob Buskirk [1:05:10]
Yeah, I think a lot of people, you will see it, I can’t talk about it. But there, there’s going to be companies that are going to release a case. And they’re going to have three different versions, one for water cooling, one for air cooling, and then the one that looks pretty that’s all glass. So you’ll see companies have the same case that almost looks the same, but it’s will have versions for ones for performance, and you still see it like fractal design, they have a they have a case that you can get it with high airflow, or you can get it with like the glass. So but yeah, it’s it’s kind of like, if you like a certain case, you’re going to get that case if that’s what you want. You’re going to get it and then you’re going to figure out how I can make this cool, like, you know how I can cool it the best. But typically when I’m doing a system, I look at the cases, the first thing I check, that’s, you know, because I want a specific Look, I know what I’m going for. And I know that that case, it’s going to support all the other hardware that I have.
Jim Collison [1:06:18]
We had Jay Madison on a couple weeks ago, he of course, he builds the just the smallest, I mean, his specialty is kind of these small builds, right? And that’s also another I mean, the thermal you know, the the temperature is big considerations, in a way but it’s for that it’s almost like well, we get what’s good enough in their you know, they try to worry about sound and fit and getting the hot air out. But but all and getting performance but it’s kind of combination. That’s kind of kind of what I hear you guys say like, Okay, I’m gonna go for looks and then I’m gonna figure out the components that give me the best performance kind of based around the limitations that I have where I I made the opposite. I may take it say I want to get my suppose I really don’t care. I’m going to ship the case away, where nobody’s gonna see it anyways, I’m gonna want max performance if it’s an ugly case, as long as it keeps it cool. So I guess it depends where you want to, or you I’m also not a light guy like I don’t put, I don’t put any, nobody lights it. Although that’s not true. I do have two fans, they do have lights, one white light. So technically they do. But so I guess there’s a couple different ways to kind of kind of approach it just depending what your priorities are. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker [1:07:33]
sure, sure. Okay.
Jim Collison [1:07:34]
Cool. Are there any other when we think about technologies that have come along with cooling? Is there anything new or anything else we didn’t talk about in here? Along these lines, anything you guys want to promote or talk about maybe things that are coming up or what anything we missed?
Ryan Kerschner [1:07:52]
I mean, I’ll say they’re good. I’m just gonna mention like the the cooler that I’m using in my case right now is one an all in one from ncst It’s their crack in z 73. So it’s a 360 millimeter cooler, meaning if you know has a 360 millimeter radiator with 320 millimeter fans, cool thing about this is on the waterblock that goes on the CPU with that course air we showed it was just kind of a plastic cover with some RGB LEDs. This one has an LCD. So right now I look over and it’s showing me an active temperature graph for my CPU and my GPU. But I can put a thing computers look on that screen and have it be animated. And I can do all sorts of crazy cool stuff with it. So I really like that. I think that product is just really neat. It’s gimmicky, but it’s also useful, right? Because I do I look over at it all the time to say, Hey, what’s my CPU and GPU right now?
Jim Collison [1:08:44]
What’s the retail on that? Right?
Ryan Kerschner [1:08:46]
Oh, man, I’ll find it. 240 or 270? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. It’s a lot higher than the standard all in one price.
Bob Buskirk [1:08:56]
Yeah, so for me the one thing that I really like about cool Is that we can do things like this, which I’ll bring over here. This is I think this is 16 litres. And this is a small form factor PC from Coursera. It’s called the Coursera. One. And what’s cool about it is that both the CPU and GPU or liquid cool with all in one coolers, and then there’s a single fan at the top, and this small little thing, which is like, again, 16 liters. It’s very, very small. It is more powerful than my computer that’s sitting next to me. It has the latest components. It It has everything and it’s so small than we’ve seen. You know, this is a custom built PC, but we have cases from ncst. They have their h1, which is I think 18 liters. It’s a little bit bigger than that, but that’s one that you could build yourself and that we have these either liquidation Like all in ones or even, you know certain fans and certain heat sinks that we can put in these very small builds that will keep these components nice and cool so
Mike Wieger [1:10:08]
that that computer reminds me of an actual functioning version of a the old trashcan Mac pros, but they came out Yeah. Right when I said all that air right up the center through the one circle fan on the top, but that never took off. Yeah, this this
Bob Buskirk [1:10:24]
again, Bob. This is the Coursera one. I think it’s the I 200. Yeah, yeah. So this is the new one that has a 2080 ti and a 10 900 k in it. Wow. Yes. power in that form is this is I think 30 $500. So it’s very,
Mike Wieger [1:10:44]
yeah, it has a meaning with both hands it better before
Bob Buskirk [1:10:48]
it’s actually it’s very heavy and it’s all metal which is pretty cool. But there’s radiators on both sides. So you have radiator here on the GPU side and then radiator here on the CPU. So
Ryan Kerschner [1:11:01]
it’s like a no no fans on those radiators, right? It’s just the single fan top, pulling air through the sides and up and out.
Bob Buskirk [1:11:08]
Yeah, but it’s, I was really impressed with this. I’m not because I build it my own self kind of guy. I’m not really, I don’t like, cuz like, you know, I don’t like prebuilt. But the one thing I really liked about this is that I couldn’t do this myself. I couldn’t build something this small in this compact that would actually work like this. And it’s technically not that expensive for what it is. If I we actually tried to go on PC part picker, make this and it was like $400 more expensive for this. And you’re not going to get a case that’s this small that you could actually do it in either. So it was like I said it was I was just really impressed with it, what they are, what they’re able to do with liquid cooling in the single fan is actually really impressive. So yeah, it’s engineering,
Jim Collison [1:11:58]
right. I mean, they’ve engineered it. And that’s one of those kinds of things where you can do that. And that’s something so in this case, if you’re going to spend that kind of money, I mean, yeah, it’s fun to build it, but it may make more sense just to just to pick it up. That’d be a great, I’d see. I don’t, it’s tall. It’s not. I mean, it’s kind of it’s kind of pretty, but it’s kind of not too you know,
Bob Buskirk [1:12:19]
there are RGB fans on the front seat.
Jim Collison [1:12:21]
Well, but that’d be perfect for me because I don’t really care about RGB lights. I just want performance out of the thing. So that would be Mike, what have you What have you picked up from the last hour we’ve been we’ve been chatting you get to do anything different. This way you in any way to do to do more of something? I mean, we got a new hand box, so you can’t
Mike Wieger [1:12:43]
pay money right now. Yeah, that Ham Radio was not wife approved. Technically. Right upstairs. She can hear me um, well, it sounds like I need a 20 series card though so I can do the custom water block that ties into the cooler that I have the the alphacool eisbaer cooler that sounds pretty cool.
Ryan Kerschner [1:13:05]
Wait for maybe next month or two and I’ve got a new GPU release. There we go.
Mike Wieger [1:13:10]
Yeah. No, I like talking about stuff because I never I didn’t know anything about it before and I reached out to Ryan a lot when I was doing it and, and the whole you know pressure in the case right direction fans things like that makes it makes a big, big difference. And the dust was a big thing. And I think for first time builders have pretty PCs like I said, you can be a builder for a long time but the first time builder summons can be seen all that stuff makes a pretty big difference.
Jim Collison [1:13:37]
What do you before we wrap this up? Ryan, I’ll start with you. What are you excited about just from a tech gadget perspective, not not beyond cooling and the stuff we’ve talked about. You’re also in the gadget world you live Yes, there’s a bunch of kind of cool stuff coming out around Christmas time. This is a question I start asking now. The guests starting now till Christmas. What are you looking forward to
Ryan Kerschner [1:13:59]
I would say a drone, but I already bought it like couple weeks ago
Jim Collison [1:14:04]
Ryan Kerschner [1:14:05]
So it would probably be that and I don’t know have you been
Jim Collison [1:14:09]
Have you been flying that much
Ryan Kerschner [1:14:11]
a little bit I’ve got just been busy with a lot of stuff I’m going to be flying it a lot more and then I’ve got a project coming up that kind of a going to use it a lot for that to survey some some land and stuff to make videos and just try and do a little more videography and stuff so I would say video just video in general right learning to use the equipment that I have better to you know, I don’t need a fancy new camera. Obviously the drone gets me up in the air but
Jim Collison [1:14:40]
if you’ve told your family already know Christmas presents, good, you’re good. Good. Good. Okay, good. Maybe some chocolate and someone
Ryan Kerschner [1:14:48]
maybe a new lens or
Jim Collison [1:14:50]
Bob, what do you is your look out?
Bob Buskirk [1:14:53]
Well, obviously I’m excited for the graphics card launch but beyond that I have been looking at drones to I’m I assume that DCI will be announcing something for holiday. I also need to get a new phone so I’m an iPhone guy now you guys aren’t iPhone guys, but I I am. Yeah. Okay, so yeah, I have an iPhone x or iPhone 10 wherever you want to call it that I’ve had for since it came out and I this next generation I will be upgrading so I’m excited to see what they do. Especially like I love taking pictures on my phone because this is what I have. And it’s just this camera just seems a little dated. Now I still take good pictures on it but it just seems a little dated
Mike Wieger [1:15:32]
on the same exact boat. I’m on the 10 and so I’m probably gonna be upgrading this year now and it’s what two and a half years out and batteries starting to get a little low and things like that. You know, after two years, I have something and they flip the switch and it turns into a shitty phone.
Bob Buskirk [1:15:47]
I haven’t noticed that at all on this there is no reason for me to upgrade. The only reason I want to upgrade is better camera quality really okay.
Mike Wieger [1:15:55]
And I’ve that’s weird because I’ve been totally fine with the camera quality. My battery has just been too depleting pretty quickly out today. Oh yeah, I’m plugging in at at noon because I’m already at 48% Oh, I don’t know what I am on it a lot for work right because I run teams on it. While I’m putting doing stuff teasers to use my phone for teams. I mean, I’m using it constantly, but it’s still even if I let it sit there it’s going pretty quick.
Jim Collison [1:16:19]
There was at one time you dropped in the lake, I mean, but besides that, besides that one time Hey, guys, I’m on an eight plus like, let in this thing is just rocking like I paid it off. You know, I did the two year because it’s interest free, why wouldn’t you right? And I paid it off last year at this time. And and I’m just gonna hold on to this thing until it dies because it’s so far battery’s been great. Like, I think the battery gate thing is over just to be honest. I think they’ve, you know, they got their hand slapped for that. And I yeah, I don’t think they’re doing it anymore. I did get we had the sixes. And we did get the class action lawsuit paperwork where you can get I think 50 bucks. If you had an idea Phone six Apple Pay back 50 bucks for their battery gate thing that they had on there. But yeah, I have an eight plus Ryan, what do you what are you using for a phone?
Ryan Kerschner [1:17:09]
I have the pixel four XL in How long have you had that? I got it last fall like right when it came out. Before that though I was on the first gen Pixel XL. So I had it for three about three years and then moved over to my kids
Jim Collison [1:17:25]
are this is the weird part my whole family’s Android and I’m, I’m the iPhone guy. And it’s just, it’s just so bizarre. But I I too, I think I’m just gonna wait until it dies. And then I’ll pick up whatever the latest generation iPhone is at that at that point, whatever the right price point is. But Cheez Its, its I remember the only two cell phones for 200 bucks.
Bob Buskirk [1:17:46]
Yeah, that’s when I did this upgrade. I think it was when they you know, I think and I did the upgraded one with more storage. So I think this cost more than graphics card like yeah, I think Yeah. 1300 dollars when I caught it. So that’s, that’s pretty profound considering like I said to use every you know, every couple years it’s 200 bucks and you know,
Jim Collison [1:18:08]
yeah, no use it seemed like that was a no brainer they subsidize I’m not sure they were as expensive to make in those days. You know, I don’t think we’re getting over that much. I mean, remember those phones they were you could literally run them over and then you like, Oh, it’s okay. It’s the horse you know now you breathe on it the wrong way in the screen. You know crap. So although that’s gotten that’s gotten a lot better to Mike any any gadgets your Well, we know we use radio, but besides that one, any gadgets you’re looking forward to as we come up to Christmas?
Mike Wieger [1:18:41]
Yeah, they’re all Ham Radio related. Now I took my general and passed it. So I have a whole new slew of bands I can operate on and that’s all hf and so my whole Christmas list now is antenna stuff and antenna analyzers and soldering kits and all that nerdy Hammer hammer hammer a hammer or
Jim Collison [1:19:03]
I am I love Oh my god. So next week McCabe Dave McCabe is coming on talked about we’re gonna do some lawn nerd stuff so if you’re if you’re thinking about that we’ll be talking about kind of fall prep to get your lawn ready for the winter and then the week after that we’re going to catch up with Mike in this ham addiction that he has gotten into and so if you want to hear how far down the rabbit hole which and we’re gonna do some ham on the show we’re gonna do some digital modes we’re gonna do some screen capture while we do some digital modes we’ll we’ll show you guys around
Bob, Ryan, thanks for taking some time tonight to hang out with us again if you want to get all things think computers think computers dot said that right right think computers I’m getting that right okay. Think computers.org as soon as I said that, I thought that doesn’t sound right. I want to make sure we’re getting that thing computers. org. You guys podcast Wednesdays Is that Is it the same time and they can follow you on on YouTube just like they do here to be able to hit that notification. What time is that? What time you guys do that on Wednesday.
Ryan Kerschner [1:19:59]
That is It’s 730 Central yeah sounds
Jim Collison [1:20:02]
right on right on or is there like a show right around like we do or
Ryan Kerschner [1:20:07]
now we don’t we don’t do any pre.
Bob Buskirk [1:20:09]
We should probably do a pre show.
Jim Collison [1:20:11]
Right? Oh, yeah.
Ryan Kerschner [1:20:12]
See? He’s always like alright you can do the intro today. Yeah, hold that on me yesterday
Jim Collison [1:20:17]
yeah I like I like a little pre show Mike and I were talking in our in our pre show before you guys joined the I’m just kind of getting prepped and I said you know it’s just kind of fun to goof around. Oh, Mike’s got that camera that
Ryan Kerschner [1:20:31]
he didn’t press this focus or
Jim Collison [1:20:34]
so he’s he disappeared once already and I removed him here all I can do the I can pull him out. Sorry Wieger You’re out. One mistake. And you’re out. We’ll pull pull him back.
Mike Wieger [1:20:47]
Apparently 30 minutes went by fast and I thought you’re right. I had not hit my focus remote in the last 30 minutes. No right on but
Jim Collison [1:20:53]
gentlemen, thanks for coming on tonight. Thanks for the info and doing it. Thanks for being great partners in what we do you guys So you kind of have joined the community and in should we share a lot of the same listeners, I would encourage if you’re a Home Gadget Geeks listener, you should definitely be subscribed or listening to YouTube, their podcasts as well. And it’s available.
There’ll be a link in the show notes, if you want to be able to do that. And you guys are just really great at kind of what I like, which is kind of the realistic reviews, like, not the you know, I’ve watched some of these reviews and it’s just kind of like, yeah, nobody’s ever gonna do that. Like, why would Why would you and you guys kind of bring it to more the average guy. And I don’t know who has an average guy site, but if somebody had an average guy site, they would probably fit in what you guys are doing pretty well. So I appreciate your guys’s work, hang tight for me.
Let me close this up and then we’ll do a little post show. Just a quick a couple quick reminders. One big thanks to Christian and all that he does over there Maple Grove Partners and keeping our site up. They actually he just installed some redundancy. So now if you if you host on Maple Grove partners. It’s it’s not single site, he’s got some failover you know Christians doing it right. So if you need hosting for anything, he’ll basically build a custom plan for you, Mike
Mike Wieger [1:22:10]
is customer support is like lickety split, especially with add people like me. I switched my site over. I had had the Ham Radio site, I switched over to something that I never end up using. I sent him a message like two weeks ago was like, hey, do you have a backup of what I did like a year ago? Can we go back to the Ham Radio site? within a few hours? He messaged me back Hey, yeah, you’re back up and running. Yeah. Back to the old URL. You switch. The URL had a backup from a year ago. That guy is amazing. Rock Solid. Yes.
Jim Collison [1:22:39]
He’s just a genius. He plans start as little as $10 a month for full hosting. And he does do anything you want. Just tell him. You listen to Home Gadget Geeks he’ll do.
Mike Wieger [1:22:48]
Tell him Jim sent you, that’s it.
Jim Collison [1:22:50]
Maple Grove partners.com and Christian, we’ll get you set up there as well. Don’t forget, you can send us an email and I always appreciate hearing from you guys. So Jim@theaverageguy.tv, if you just want to say hello Hey, I appreciated this. And there’s a few of you every every week, who sent me a note. And I always appreciate that it’s nice to kind of get some feedback on what you liked and what you did.
And, of course, this show, you’re going to start sending you emails now Jim loved every part of it, Jim@theaverageguy.tv. And then, don’t forget, if you want to download the app, HomeGadgetGeeks.com. And you can have that on your phone on both Android. So Ryan, you could have it or us iPhone users could have it. It’s free on both platforms. HomeGadgetGeeks.com download it today. We’ll do some post show. Thanks for coming out. For those that joined us live. We’ll do a little bit of both show. With that. We’ll say goodbye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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