Kevin Schoonover, IcyDock Options and Gigabit Internet Choices – HGG434

Kevin Schoonover is back again and this time loaded up with internet and internal networking decisions. 1 GB Internet speeds means some upgrades to 2.5 and 10 GB internally, and Kevin has research all the options. We make a plea to Icydock at the beginning of the show from some sponsorship opportunities and have some updates from the previous week. I think you will enjoy the show.

Full show notes, transcriptions, audio and video at

Join Jim Collison / @jcollison and Mike Wieger / @WiegerTech for show #434 of Home Gadget Geeks brought to you by the Average Guy Network.


Join us for the show live each Thursday at 8pmC/9E/1UTC at

Podcast, Home Gadget Geeks, Kevin Schoonover, Gigabit, Internet, switch, hard drives, wifi, network, cisco, dlink, tp-link, Icydock



Save $40 on your first Box of HelloFresh


The move to 1Gb internet

Modem Netgear CM1150V:

Teaming NICs:

2.5GbE dual port NIC:

Multigig Switches:

NAS with 2.5GbE:

Untangle Home Pro:

Firewalla Gold:

Add dual 1GbE NIC to small PC $25, maybe:

Sonos forums- learning polite ways to say, your WiFi is not as robust than you think it is. A tool to help test:

Mesh WiFi,,,, I am not a fan,,,,,,

WAPs with WiFi controller, I am currently using D-Link:

TP-Link WAPs and controller intriguing and affordable:


Unbiquiti AirCube

10GbE on the cheap:

Mellanox ConnectX-3 $35!55016!US!-1

Aruba S3500-24POE 1GbE/4x10GbE SFP+/dual PSU $75

48-port 1GbE switch, four SFP+ 10GbE ports and two QSFP+ 40GbE ports $500?

Unraid- HPE Microserver Gen10 six drive server:

HPE MicroServer Gen10 Plus:

Paragon free tools:



Jim Collison  [0:00] 
This is The Average Guy Network and you found Home Gadget Geeks show number 434 recorded on February 27 2020.

Jim Collison  [0:22] 
Here on Home Gadget Geeks we cover all your favorite tech gadgets that find their way into your home news reviews, product updates and conversation. All for the average tech guy. I’m your host Jim Collison broadcasting live from the average guy TV Studios here. Beautiful Mike, like spring is on its way for sure. Right?

Mike Wieger  [0:37] 
I’m loving it. I welcome that with open arms.

Jim Collison  [0:41] 
Kevin, you’re a little farther north. Are you guys? Do you still have snow on the ground?

Kevin Schoonover  [0:45] 
Still have snow but it’s getting a lot nicer here. Probably probably gonna do a little ice fishing this weekend. And that’ll probably be it for the winter season.

Jim Collison  [0:54] 
Yeah, kinda hoping this whole global warming things pretty great. Like, if you live in the Midwest, and Listen, I’ve been through 30 Midwestern winters and the early ones like 30 years ago are awful. When I first got here, I’m like, What have I gotten myself into? And so with this latest trend, whatever it is, I’m okay with that. And I’m okay with early spring, of course, we will spring some show notes on you. And they’ll be like, for this show. I know I always say this. But Kevin actually has a lot of links tonight. So you’re gonna wanna head out to the show notes. Head up to the average slash hgG. Home Gadget Geeks hgG 434. And you’ll see all the links to everything we talked about most of the things that we talked about here tonight available, as well. You can also join us live on our mobile app. And Kevin, you were really good when you were on the road all those years you were really good about using this free Android iPhone streams out to you when we do this live to get an automatic notification. The best way to listen to the show live if you’re out on a Thursday night and you can’t get hold of it sometimes it’s hard to get in here and make all the technology work but that app works every single time Home Gadget is the site to go to and you can get that downloaded we want to thank our Patreon sponsors who do that who sponsors every single month Mike maybe the most faithful group of sponsors I’ve ever had to say just keep doing it and it helps pay for stuff

Mike Wieger  [2:21] 
and so keep doing that keep sending notes in they you know comments we love it all the emails we read them all Jim forwards me a lot of them yeah, we love you faithful followers even just you normal guys who who don’t subscribe right now that you guys are some great community discord has been popping off too and loving that.

Jim Collison  [2:39] 
No, it’s been that has been fun to be with Kevin thank you for being on discord as well and yeah, and what you add to it, if you’re on YouTube right now you can subscribe to the live page if you want to do that. If you’re on the recorded version, you can do that. Leave a comments in the comment down below and I do moderate those but and that goes into our chat to our live chat we’re seeing is on YouTube so if your mobile as well. You can open up that and it’s another way you can do a mobile this week, by the way, we appreciate that. So this week, actually yesterday, I got a I got a tweet that was a light, but it was a tweet about home server show 116 from like April of 2010. Looks like it was liked by our friends at IC doc and I thought what so apparently, I don’t know if this is for sure. But I think he had a new social media person and I see doc. Now I see doc is a company we have followed since the early days of home server show. I mean, this has been they make incredible and awesome enclosures for hard drives all kinds of converters, SSD converters, they’ll take it to two and a half. They’ll take it to three and a half they got they’ve got these fat cages that will allow you to put three drives in a two Bay, you can get five drives in a three Bay. Their stuff just works. Kevin I’m sure you had a few icy components in your time

Kevin Schoonover  [4:00] 
I am beta testing something for him right now. I’ve used a lot of them. And I’m assuming I’m the only one who enjoys this type of thing. But another thing that I see Doc’s website is they have a proposed product area. Its products they haven’t made yet, but they’ve kind of drawn them up. And if you like building computers and seeing what’s out there from a feature set point of view, there’s some really cool stuff out there. really unique kind of designs. The thing that could be a problem for AC doc is a lot of their designs are based on a having a five and a quarter inch Bay open and a lot of new computers and cases don’t have that Bay. But a cool thing they are prototyping is imagine a five and a quarter inch Bay with two. You got two drives, so NVMe drives three, two and a half inch and then twisted sideways. would be four, two and a half inch thin SSD drives. So those would be like seven millimeter drives. So you basically you’d have six super fast drives in this little five and a quarter location.

Mike Wieger  [5:13] 
Yeah, interesting. So I was just going to ask for you guys for the guys who maybe haven’t My hand is raised here. You know having looked an icy dock a lot obviously Mac guys, you could throw us in there cuz we haven’t don’t have a case to put them in. So it seems to me like they’re almost like adapters for drive storage or drive kind of mounting in a computer case. Yes.

Jim Collison  [5:34] 
Just imagine any kind of any sort of adapter you’d want. They probably

Mike Wieger  [5:37] 
got it. They have external

Jim Collison  [5:38] 
enclosures that are they have multi Bay, external enclosures they have, you know, in the three and a half inch drive has gotten a lot less needed. In the years we’ve been doing this in the 10 or 12 years, Kevin, we’ve been out here doing this talking about this stuff. But in this community, it’s not. I there are certainly I mean, as I talked to the guys who Storing stuff, they’re still using spinning three and a half inch drives. And I’ve got 90 terabytes of spinning three and a half inch drives so I need to shock some I don’t to get it done I’ve been thinking about kind of creating now that I’ve got this and you know, we’re still mining we’re still hard drive mining, burst and, and a bunch of other ones. Eventually, I’m going to need to I wanted to bring those count all into one server and kind of make a monster rig

Mike Wieger  [6:30] 
out of it. Go and I did see from that because you were talking about shucking real quick there was a video out I follow a guy on YouTube called bite my bits. And he actually tested he shocked all of his drives for his unraised server. And he actually had one go bad so he tested is like this is my use case guys. I shock everything. He buys all of those, I mean tons of those Western Digital enclosures and he sent it back to him. What he got back he was interested so he sent them I think just the drive. I don’t think he put it back in the enclosure. Nice in the back. Just to drop I could have that wrong when he got back was actually so he sent in Jim one of the versions you get you get the WD they’re not the passports right are they

Jim Collison  [7:10] 
are the stores

Mike Wieger  [7:13] 
yeah so he had bought an easy store sent them that in and he got back the same size with the passport so they send the whole thing though unchecked and that’s what they send it back to replace it so they are honoring those warranties even for shock drives which was that was the thought and that was the that’s what everyone you know what the new there’s the right to fix that yourself.

Kevin Schoonover  [7:38] 

Mike Wieger  [7:38] 
yeah right to repair right to fix with all that. So it was interesting test case to see that actually wish truck drives you can you can still get those replaced under warranty.

Jim Collison  [7:46] 
Kevin, you and I we’ve talked a lot about hard drives. I mean in the past you’ve sent us over to what’s the what’s the hard drive store that

Kevin Schoonover  [7:54] 
go hardrive calm was very good for white label and OEM strives for many years. Still some good deals over there?

Jim Collison  [8:03] 
Yeah. Well, it was. So anyways, so Icydock sent me this tweet or they liked on my tweet, so I just sent it back. Hey, would love to consider doing some work with you guys, it’s you know, it’s 20 it’s 2020 we’re still talking about these things. And so they asked they asked some questions about you know, audience size and some of that stuff. Kevin, you obviously have a relationship with them and you’re testing some stuff they, we talked about the, the the two, they have an M dot 222 and a half that has a dongle that goes on the back that you can plug into a port on your drive. On the back of the motherboard or inside, right, there’s a new, forget what it’s called in. So they’re like, Hey, you want to check this out. I’m like, actually, I’d really love to really work on some of those packages because I gotta load up. And at the same time, I’m going to need more seda ports inside I’m gonna have to probably replace the motherboard because I need to get 12 13 seda ports to make this thing work anyways, long story short, I want ice doc USA to know that they’ve got some customers here at Home Gadget Geeks. So I’m gonna ask you I don’t ask this a lot. In fact, I’ve never asked anything like this. But if you’re listening live right now go to Twitter. And I want you to just send a tweet to at IC doc USA. Make sure you’re getting the right one. I see why Bo ck. I see doc USA send him a tweet, just say, Hey, I’m a Home Gadget Geeks listener tapping me on it. So at j Collison so they know and make it up but whatever you want. I don’t want to tell you exactly what to do because I don’t want to look like a you know, kind of a fake tweet. But just tell them you’re a listener. If you’ve been an icy dock fan in the past, tell them tell them you heard about it on this show on the first part of the live show here. We’d love to get a little get some traction going with them. They’ve always been I’ve had a soft spot in my heart for them and I’ve had several enclosures I like I said, I’m running the fat cage right now. I’ve been thinking of is I’ve been thinking about my my crypto setup here I’ve been thinking about buying some of their cages, because I just really liked them. So love to pick them up as a sponsor in some form or fashion love for them to kind of spend the next six months or so talking about some of the stuff they do. Kevin, what you just mentioned that like that’s the future you just talked about the future of storage right and what you’re what you’re testing for him. How’s that how’s that working so far is that in use case or using

Kevin Schoonover  [10:33] 
a very, very good I’m just doing some late testing on it from it’s an M dot two type of product as well that I’m looking at with them. The the other one I talked about, they haven’t shipped yet but you know everything they have kind of works. I’m looking at this from kind of a virtualization workstation, kind of point of view, home lab kind of thing, trying to get back into virtualization a bit because I my skills are a little rough. st there. As you were talking about that, Jim, one of the one of the things I’ll throw out about icy dock is everything I’ve bought from them over the years. And Mike was just talking about warranty replacement. I’ve never had any other stuff break. Now. You know, it’s not it’s not accurate. Most of their stuff isn’t active. It’s passive backplanes and slide in slots and everything else. I’ve never had anything fail. I’ve never had anything break. It’s, it’s always been great product.

Jim Collison  [11:27] 
Yeah, it’s been in fact, you know, I’ve had a drive from them. That would take two, two and a half’s. And you could put them in there and it would turn it into one three and a half. Right and in how this was me and this goes way back to home server show and I pushed on it too hard and I broke the the backplane on it. And you know what, if I had probably just sent him a note, I bet they would have sent me a new one. Like I just I I’m sure they would have at this point, even though was my fault. So Thanks, Mike. Already tweeted over there. So I appreciate that. follow that pattern. If you’re listening live, just do it. Now, don’t we’re not going to talk about too much stuff important. Mike’s gonna give an update here in a second. And we’re going to and get that done. So I appreciate you doing that as well. Mike, you have Did you have a quick update from from last week on the mixer? Or do you want to do that in the post show? I’d seen reactions from the kid on the mic and mixer setup you want to? Is it quick? Or do you want to cover in the post show?

Mike Wieger  [12:30] 
Yeah, it’s real quick. I mean, essentially, the end all decision for those of you playing along at home was I did end up returning the condenser. I decided that it was just a little too much work for my environment, to kind of get it to sound right to eliminate the background noise in the air conditioner. But I did have a few of you reach out Ben in discord actually said he liked the sound better from the condenser, but that he agreed that in my environment, it might just be more of a hassle to deal with. And I don’t think this ATR 100 sounds bad in any regard. I think it sounds pretty much just as good. So I’m not losing any audio quality. But I think when I actually might play around with the EQ on this to see if we can maybe even tweak out a little bit more audio quality. Jim and I both noticed that in the recording, it actually sounded better that that condenser sounded a little bit better than it did when we were alive, which was kind of interesting. And then we already had someone Keith Lunsford hit me up on Twitter and said that he’s already got the XLR mixer. He grabbed he went got the mini as well. So I’m excited to see how he utilizes it. I, I did talk to him. I said, you know, what do you think and and he goes, Well, I spent the whole first night playing with just the lights. I didn’t even plug in my mic. It is it’s how there are so many fun options. He hasn’t even plugged in his mic, but I think he’s already enjoying it. So yeah, quick update, and I’ll let you guys know how it goes in the future. And if I decide to do any more mic upgrades, I’ll let you guys know, but we’re back on the ATR 2100 this week. So all you audio listeners, you know, you have to keep sending those notes on Discord. Let me know what you think of this week compared to the beginning of last week.

Jim Collison  [13:57] 
Yeah. Well, like you said, when I was doing that Editing last week I went back and listen to some chunks of it. I was like, actually, that sounded better recorded than I remember it live. Right. So Kevin, you’re using a ATR 2500 yeah 20 and that’s condenser right as well. But you so you have a fairly quiet area there. I would assume

Kevin Schoonover  [14:18] 
it’s fairly quiet but if you hear some rumbling in the background, my son is practicing the tuba down the hall. So

Mike Wieger  [14:25] 
when you had your door open and before we went live, we did hear the boom but what the hell is trying to guess baritone or tuba as it is it’s like the tuba it, isn’t it? Yeah.

Jim Collison  [14:35] 
Okay. One more update from last week I mentioned to you guys I bought the Philips dimmer remote comes in has a flat case that they’re a flat panel that you kind of taper or screw into the wall and it’s kind of hard to see it’s got some magnets there. This just this magnetically connects to it as well, and you have a demo for it. I had really hoped to use this and I’d heard allegedly on YouTube That I could turn that into kind of a bridge, you know, my Philips Hue version one bridge kind of went offline, which was kind of weird. I heard there was an exploit for those version ones and you could it would mimic it going down and then when you went to reset it, it would exploit your network. That’s exactly what happened to me. So I don’t know if nothing’s gone wrong, the network and my bitdefender router has would probably have blocked any of that anyways. But I couldn’t is I tried to get this dimmer switch setup to the lights, it was all I could figure out is how to get them all the lights to do the actions that’s on the dimmer. So on the brighter, dimmer off, right, those are the four switches that are on here. Really works better with the hub with the with the hub and the app and stuff and so I gave in an order the v2, Phillips Philips Hue hub and that will be in tomorrow. We’ll set that up. It works better with the average kind of gave up it was 35 or 30, maybe 40 bucks. We were reconditioned or what else do we call that? When? refurb refurb. There we go. Thank you. So just an update I thought I could make that work. I talked about it on the show last night. I just couldn’t make it work with habitat and I in it in I’m sure it does. It’ll work a lot more natively when I get the hub in place and and go that route. So the update on that Kevin is here to talk a little bit about his move to a little faster internal network course. Kevin, most of what you’re going to say is going to go over my head and over Mike’s probably as well. But you have let’s let’s go back a little bit. Give us a little bit about your journey and and why. Why go to two faster internal network.

Kevin Schoonover  [16:44] 
The good questions, I think it’s so anybody who deals with xfinity like I deal with xfinity knows that every two years you have to call and threaten to leave so that you get a halfway decent price out of them which is never really a halfway decent price. And is normal practice with folks like them it’s they give you more than you really need I don’t necessarily know that I need gigabit ether or internet at home but that was that was the cell will bump you on performance you know you’re still limited to you know hitting everybody’s the terabyte per month capacity limit but and actually I saw Dave from reset was run bumping into his limit so you get those notices what kind of got me going on the thought process here was so I hate renting modems so I went out to buy a modem to save the seven to $10 a month they want for it. And now that I had my gigabit performance I needed a DOCSIS was at DOCSIS 3.1 I believe is the spec I needed to hit to yeah and and picked up a new modem for that. So it’s the xfinity or the net To Nighthawk cM 1150 v. One of the things I noticed in looking at the documentation, I actually read the documentation before I popped into it was reminding me that, you know, DOCSIS 3.1 is actually good up to 10 gigabit. So there is the potential there that we could be seeing 10 gigabit speed theoretically to your home. And of course, on the back of this modem, there’s four Ethernet ports on the back or upside to Ethernet ports on the back. Because it’s gigabit, it’s probably going to be more than gigabit actually mine tops out at about 1.2. But that’s faster than one gigabit port will handle. So you can team the two ports together. I’ve played with that a little bit. We’ll get into that with the firewall aspect of it. But the underlying message with this is, for years we’ve talked about multi mode, multi gig and base t There’s one gigabit Ethernet, there’s 2.5 Gigabit Ethernet, there’s five Gigabit Ethernet. And there’s 10 2.5. And five haven’t caught on very well. But now I’m starting to see things like, you know, this, this as more people get gigabit internet internet in their homes, they’re going to need something faster. So, will we start to see 2.5 Gigabit Ethernet ports on the backs of, of the modems? I think so. Are we going to start to see firewalls come with the 2.5 gigabit port on the front end of it? I’d like to think so there as well. What’s driving some of that move to 2.5 is so probably my least favorite of net. The network guys is the real tech folks. And real tech is offering up a 2.5 gig chip now at a very affordable price. So you’re starting to see a lot of folks ended up picking up this card. It’s a dual 2.5 Gigabit Ethernet card for I think it was 39 bucks and works great connects to one of my switches that supports 2.5 gig. So we’re starting to slowly see this adoption around 2.5 gig occur with you if you look at some of the gaming motherboards, some of those are starting to come with 2.5 gig ports. Now some of the you know obviously Ethernet cards here, I am starting to see as well that the sum of the switches too so you can’t you can’t do much of this stuff without a switch. And in the show notes I’ve thrown in a review on this one but net gear has a ms 510 tx which has four gigabit ports, to 2.5 gig ports to five gig ports and to 10 gig ports one of those 10 gig ports is an SFP port as well. And I think this thing sells for about 250 if I’m not mistaken there’s a real nice review of it over on serve the homes website. But for somebody who is looking for more performance looking for more speed and their network we’re starting to see switches now come down into a price point that you’ll make this affordable to jump into. Holy moly.

Jim Collison  [21:29] 
You know, it gets me thinking, Kevin, I mean is is I’m in a in a world and I have not internally, we’ve it’s funny that you mentioned this. We’ve actually in the last in the past shows I’ve been talking about my internet connectivity problems and usually it’s rock solid coxes done some weird things it’s back it’s fine now and actually downgraded the service I got it for cheaper and and I’m at 150 down and 10 up and so I could go gigabit CenturyLink is being bringing fiber into the area. Here to Kind of compete with that. And I may consider doing that. But Kevin from an internal, you know what I’m thinking? And I said this kind of mistakingly. Early on here, but when we think about our internal network and moving, so not even leaving the house at this point, what In your opinion, what’s the advantage to go into point five or 10? Just internally Besides, I mean, don’t you really have to have kind of a special use case of moving large video files around? I don’t know, too many other formats that create that much data. And maybe you could tell me different but but what’s the advantage to having two and a half or 10? Or is it just cuz size matters?

Kevin Schoonover  [22:39] 
It’s in the end, it’s kind of a size matters, things.

Kevin Schoonover  [22:45] 
Like the foot feet and my car goes all the way to the floor, but why the hell can I drive that fast? Now I do see cases if you’re doing and I always default to the one that I have a friend who does a lot of video editing, a lot of picture editing. On his workstation back to a NASS, we’ve crept up to we just jumped all the way to 10 gigabit with him does he need 10 gigabit now, but you know what, he doesn’t wait for pictures to load anymore or videos to load his projects all load just ultra ultra fast. So it’s good for the bottlenecks looking for, you know, where you have issues in your network. And if you’re using a NASA storage device or a home server device of some time at home a home, you know, I could make the argument. If If you look at the numbers of it, a regular disk drive will sustain about 150 to 200 megabytes per second transfer rates. A Gigabit Ethernet connection will sustain about 125 megabytes per second. So a single hard drive or SSD and a PC could saturate a gigabit port. So moving up to 2.5. So you’ve got a box that does some type of raid or some type of caching on it. You could argue that if you had you were streaming media, sharing media, doing different things off from a storage device. That’s where I see the biggest gain is to not have any bottleneck any pipeline issues there.

Mike Wieger  [24:14] 
I think I agree hundred percent and especially I think it’s really important if you move up to gigabit Internet, and let’s say user a is up in there, you know, room downloading a file, well, it’s going to max out can use as much speed as it can. So there’s a gig right? And if your switch like especially you if you have stacks, which is like me, right, you have your main switch, and maybe you have some offshoots, if someone has saturated that entire pipe, there’s not much overhead left for the person watching Plex, the person moving a file, so even just having that little bit of overhead 2.5 will be more than enough. I’ve actually been looking at getting a 10 gig card just not a switch but just between my main machine here and my unread server, but it gives you that breathing room for everyone else in the house for when someone all of a sudden maxes out that now before gigabit internet It’s probably not too big of an issue in that case I just laid out because like for me, Jim, I actually just downgraded myself on Cox this weekend, down to 150 10. I’m on that same plan. So if someone maxes out a download, they’re only and take up 150 of the whole gigabit pipe. So I’m probably not running into any issues there with someone trying to watch Plex in inside the house. But But yeah, I agree with you, Kevin. I think having that little extra room jumping up a little bit. I mean, why not? Right. Why not do at this point? I think especially with the $250 price tag. Now, was that switch managed that you were looking at? No, that’s an unmanaged. Okay. So that’s, that’s been my thing is finding a good, affordable managed switch. And especially because if you want to do any teaming, link aggregation, because the way I kind of do this on my unbraid box, is I actually have three Knicks with Link Aggregation because I run a Cisco switch. And so that unbraid box has three gigabit of pipe to it. Now obviously, all my computers can only access one gig bit at a time, but come from different locations, it could use up to three if it needed to. So if I have multiple users trying to write file to it, it’s never going to have a bottleneck there.

Kevin Schoonover  [26:09] 
So you’re gonna you’re gonna make me jump ahead in my in my stuff here. But

Mike Wieger  [26:15] 
so I was so excited when I saw the notes for this because I’ve been thinking about doing the exact same thing my house, I’m glad you’re going to walk me through kind of your experience with it.

Kevin Schoonover  [26:24] 
secular, there’s a company microtech who believed in the network and guys know, out of Eastern Europe. I’m still amazed at this. Serve the home did a review of it and hopefully it’s up on the screen now. It’s a new switch from them. That is 48. one gigabit ports, just plain old one gigabit ports. It is for 10 gig ports, with SFP connections, and then it is to 40 gig ports. And for those who understand 40 gig 40 gig uses what’s called called a quad SFP. So you can run it from a 40 gig Nic. Or you could break that out into 410 gigs. So it gives you some flexibility there. And amazingly enough, apparently this switch is going to sell for $500.

Jim Collison  [27:15] 

Kevin Schoonover  [27:17] 
Now, does anybody need 40 gig at home? No, probably not. But talk about I want

Mike Wieger  [27:24] 
this Yeah, now that I know it’s there. Oh, geez. Now I was going to do 10 gig now it’s just you know, compared to 40.

Kevin Schoonover  [27:32] 
Well, and if I move over to once again, leader in this was going to talk a little bit about how cheaply you can move to four to 10. I’ve been a fan of so Aruba, wireless vendor, owned by hp. Now, they have they obviously sell switches to coordinate all of their wireless access points out there. And there are You’re moving towards multi gig as well, but it’s becoming very popular in the networking community to buy their older switches, lifetime warranty Lifetime support for free. So this is a 24 port POV switch. So one gig ports at 2424 one gig ports with POV for 10 gig ports off in little turd off to the side here. This one happened to come with dual power supplies. And this was a whopping $75

Mike Wieger  [28:33] 
I’m spending $75 right now.

Kevin Schoonover  [28:35] 
So if you do this is the lowest I’ve ever seen these and there’s great over a premier effort to serve the home. Those guys they’ve got a couple guys who’ve done you know you kind of need to jump into this switch and tell those 10 gig ports Hey, you’re not uplink ports anymore your your regular Ethernet ports. So there’s a little bit of config to do with it, but it’s not that difficult but It is managed it that is a fully managed switch. Yep, I’m, I’m about to spend $75.

Jim Collison  [29:05] 
So look at that one. scene. Hey, I see Doc, see how easy people spend money? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  [29:12] 
just the co host of the show.

Unknown Speaker  [29:14] 
Yeah, well, you’re the worst.

Kevin Schoonover  [29:17] 
So Jim, another thing popped into my head when you were talking about

Jim Collison  [29:20] 
Kevin have a hold on. Before you do that. Hold that thought for just one second. Let me bring this up. So the 24 port switch that I bought two years ago for I think it was a screaming deal at 90 bucks, then it’s 70 bucks. Now this is the your kind of your standard 24 port Gigabit Ethernet, which up until tonight was just perfectly fine for Wieger. And now it’s not. But it’s interesting, you know, 75 bucks for that and a little configuration that’s more of a hardcore tech guy. But you know, wow, all of a sudden, you know, you kind of go man that the gigabit days or I guess the get internally the gigabit days are over.

Kevin Schoonover  [29:57] 
Now one thing to keep in mind with a switch like that is the 10 gig. ports are SFP so you’ll have the added cost of buying transceivers and transceivers aren’t always compatible. So it is a big thing to go and check of. So the transceiver I’m buying for this Aruba switch, is it compatible is the transceiver I’m buying for the network card. So on the other end, I really like mellanox is a very good 10 gig Ethernet card in the in the enterprise and you can get mellanox Connect three cards for about 35 bucks. So buying transceivers from either end can run into a little bit of money, but there’s also direct attached cables which is a you know, if you if you don’t have to go very long distance you can forget about fiber and use these direct attached cables that have transceivers already soldered on the ends. So they that tends to be a route to go so the switches cheap, the other stuff will probably set you back something although I’ve noticed lately that you can buy transceivers that convert to an RJ 45. So if you do have an A 10 gigabit card that uses traditional cat six a wiring and supports rj 45, you can go that route as well. And what actually served the home has been doing a series of reviews on those as well. Just a thought, Jim, what you were saying to about your home network is and I’ll get to this in a little bit on wireless is and what Mike was saying, but different users streaming and downloading things. If you only have like one access point in your house, or in a few minutes, I’ll beat up on mesh networking, because I’m not a fan is if a lot of your users are tied into one of the mesh devices. You’re going to soak that guy dry, you know, you’re just gonna suck that guy dry. So with wireless access points, it gives you the ability to have a gigabit port to each of the access points have those scattered through your house so that you can kind of break them up by rooms and usage areas where people use, and you can balance out your network much better from that point of view as well.

Jim Collison  [32:10] 
So, but not as convenient, right? I mean, then you’re Are you moving in between SS IDs when you’re doing that or

Kevin Schoonover  [32:17] 
flat SSID? Through the

Jim Collison  [32:19] 
that transfers? Okay. I mean, this is okay. Right, because that’s what, in the early days of this, this was the problem. Right, the handoffs never worked very well,

Kevin Schoonover  [32:27] 
the hand and the handoffs and roaming were awful. And what’s coming together now is all these guys kind of figured out that unless you’re in the enterprise, and deep in the enterprise, nobody’s going to pay money for a wireless access point controller anymore. It’s all done through software, or it’s cloud based, and you got to give it away to get it out the door. So now everybody is doing, you know, unless you’re Cisco, or ruba, or some of the high end guys, you know, you’re not going to get anybody who’s going to pay for an access point. So

Jim Collison  [32:58] 
Joe makes it good. Comment and he says the old saying nobody ever gets fired for buying Cisco unless of course it’s for home and the significant other finds out what you spent for it.

Mike Wieger  [33:09] 
Well, I actually run my Cisco switch. I got it on eBay for $30 It’s a 48 port POV managed Cisco switch for 35 bucks because it doesn’t have a face plate as I’m big dent in the top but hey, it still works like a bit plug it in. Oh yeah, gigabit. And I think I think the two there are four fiber ports SFP ports. I’ve actually never checked if those are 10 or one. My biggest problem is the command line on Cisco’s for a guy who doesn’t do it in his day job is not fun to work with. And there’s no support now, right? Like I don’t have a contract with them. So upgrades things like that don’t happen.

Kevin Schoonover  [33:48] 
No, it’s a it’s a bit tough. I’m switching back for a minute that the whole 2.5 gig Ethernet connection stumbled on to the store. These guys are coming along slowly. ysus has a storage division that builds NASS products actually quite nice NASS products. Their higher end units are all starting to come with to 2.5 gigabit ports, which you could link aggregate to five if you want to do. Q logic is offering up 10 gig ports on some of their stuff. So that’s a nice jump as well. For the storage, guys who like to play with stuff. This is the little company who does like open source arm based products. they partner with a couple of Linux vendors, they partner with open media vault, and they have a little arm board here with 2.5 gig Ethernet on it. And they’re doing a first production run on this product. It’s a tiny little box basically holds five hard drives. I think the whole works is under 400 bucks for the whole thing. You can either buy the board and do projects with it. What caught my interest in this board is it is a nano it x phone factor with five SATA ports on it. And surprisingly it will actually fit in. Jim you remember the old HP media servers? Oh yeah, yes this board will physically fit in there. I’m still a figure out how to do the cabling but we might have a re birth of the old media servers. Oh my gosh board and Dr. cage or just the board. I just did the board just to the board and try to cable into the existing drives there. Okay, so back back to my internet stuff. Yeah. My next my next big thing was obviously I’m on gigabit internet now. And what’s what’s it costing you Kevin? It’s a big bundle. I guess it’s I want to say it was the whole thing with cable and everything else. I want to see the internet come out to be like 70 a month or 60 a month or so. That’s not too bad, but it’s but it’s very

Mike Wieger  [36:00] 
Is that gigabit up and down or just down?

Kevin Schoonover  [36:02] 
Just down? It’s about 30 up

Mike Wieger  [36:04] 
yeah, that’s that’s what Cox is here to

Jim Collison  [36:07] 
drive me nuts. It just drives me nuts. Why? Why does it have to be that way? Like, I need up I don’t care about down. I mean, I do you don’t. So you should

Kevin Schoonover  [36:16] 
when you mentioned earlier about charter offering fiber, a lot of the fibers are full. They are what you get down is what you get up and it’s just in how they kind of lay out their circuitry.

Jim Collison  [36:29] 
I think I need to wait for CenturyLink to run their fiber and I think they’re running it right now. There’s a big project going on on harville Road, which is one comes into Bellevue and I think I’ve seen him running blue and orange conduit, you know, they go in there and they you know, they run it down through and I think that’s the fiber coming in. So I have to keep keep tabs on them but it’s just frustrating to get 10 like and I can’t buy might have to get on a crazy commercial plan to get any more Yeah. You know, hundred would be great. I don’t even need a full gigabit 100 would be awesome. So

Kevin Schoonover  [37:04] 
you know, and I’m, I’m here in the Twin Cities, I’m right between, you know, I’m in Cottage Grove, which is just south of Woodbury Woodbury is one of the largest, fastest growing suburbs in the metro area. And I have one choice, and that’s xfinity. That’s my only choice here. Now luckily, I have a choice to get really fast. But you know, we for for it being 2020 we still don’t have that great of offerings across major metro areas. So

Jim Collison  [37:34] 
you know, it’s, this is when we talk about the digital divide. And how this these are, these are total firstworldproblems. Okay, yeah. So let me just say, like for me to gripe about not being able to get gigabit when there’s places in the country that can barely get 10 down, right. Yeah, a lot of rural areas and stuff like that. So I kind of feel bad, but Darn it. I want to

Unknown Speaker  [37:58] 
talk about me

Jim Collison  [38:01] 
It’s all about me at this point. But anyway, sorry, can Kevin keep going?

Kevin Schoonover  [38:05] 
So obviously the next thing from an upgrade path here is my old you mentioned Cisco, I was running a Cisco small business firewall. Just because I was stalling to move to something else used an old zeizel USG 24 many years had good luck with that. And so I went back to our good friends at untangle. And you know, Mike has mentioned it many times I used it years ago, and was blown away at how clean and easy the install was. Um, I will give a little, I’ve got it running on an older HP pro 3000 PC, which is a it’s like a Pentium q 9500. So it’s a quad core Pentium, and obviously, it doesn’t hardly tap the CPU at all. I’ve got eight Giga memory in there, it’s using about 30% of that I’ve got everything turned on right now. Um, I honestly wasted more time farting around getting that old PC tweaked and tuned and running. Kind of the diminishing returns deal, I had a nice quad port HP Ethernet card in it until I realized the PC wouldn’t boot because it didn’t have enough space to load the ROM for that card. So I pulled that out and put a dual port in it and got it running. It’s very stable. But that that the new guide for installing and setting up untangle is so easy and like I don’t know if you did Yeah, I just basically turned everything on and hooked it up and it’s cooking away.

Mike Wieger  [39:40] 
It does and I more and more the more I use it. The report function on there is actually I mean, it seems a little daunting at first, but it’s super easy. I needed to know yesterday for some reason look to my Cox because I’ve been trying to see if I can get rid of my unlimited data addition to my internet, which is 50 bucks a month. So yesterday I had a lot more data than I thought. You just go in there. Do a report. On bandwidth control, I can tell you by hostname, right? Which was great. So then I said, oh, wow, well, this computer used a ton. Then I switched over to the by application. And it said, Well, here’s the port. And it was actually, you know, open VPN, whatever it was my global sometimes using the VPN, maybe it shouldn’t be. And you know, I was able to get, you can just search through all that data. And it keeps it for so long that even if you realize, oh, last week, I had a problem, looking back through all that data, and you’re right, the usability of it, being able to run a VPN server on there, which I use connect back to my home, but also a VPN out. So you could either run your whole network through a VPN, or it’s got super smart rules for, hey, when this host is online, send him through the VPN, please. So if you have that one friend who is comes over and doing shady stuff on your network, you could just tell Hey, every time he comes over, sent him to the VPN, right? I’m just extremely cool functionality. I don’t know if you’re like me, I find something new in there, everyone. So I’m like, Oh, that’s pretty cool. I had no idea that even existed

Kevin Schoonover  [41:00] 
I just to try it out I tried to go to a few of those off color websites and it blocked them in a very polite fashion

Mike Wieger  [41:09] 
I think you can change that screen to to say some different stuff would be pretty funny I thought about freaking out some people when you mentioned the the when I saw

Kevin Schoonover  [41:18] 
the VPN and how easy it is to set up a site to site VPN between two of them kind of back to that storage thing, again, is putting a storage box at your location in somebody else’s location all of a sudden, you know, back to the 30 up and hundred down it becomes more reasonable have an idea to mere storage between locations, you know, set up the first mere locally before you pop things over. But you know, and another thing with young with the untangle here is now I’ve got plenty of ports. So I’m on a gigabit port right now and I can saturate that. I’m still playing around a little bit with the configuration to do two of the gigabit ports through the teaming to make sure I get the utmost Out of this box, but it it does over the years if you haven’t caught on to it I’m have been for years the three networking kind of guy firewalls separate switch separate and wireless access point separate it just it I know it’s probably more expense but we’ll get into that in a minute where maybe it’s not. And you know it just works better for me I like to block things up that way, a good router. There’s nothing wrong with a good router. But I still like the idea of having all these things separate so you can tweak and tune them and have them be just as you like them to be. In that vein, one of the concerns I’ve had is you know, you almost run into this thing these days where it’s difficult to find reasonably priced standalone firewall router tech products, so untangle selling their appliance or you putting it on a PC yourself is is a nice way to go. I almost went for this but I didn’t want to wait for it. For you guys out there, there’s a company called firewall law. It’s a bunch of ex, Cisco guys. Their initial products were these little inline cubes that you could put in line in bridge mode between your modem and your router or on the other side if you preferred and it just gave you some extra security reporting and functionality. They have an Indiegogo gogo page right now for a real firewall product. So it will do routing and everything for Ethernet ports and a console. And I think they’re doing them for 375 these guys are promising, at least for let’s say, one year, two years of free updates for them. So keeping you know, look always looking for that, hey, I just want a good reasonably priced firewall that supports the features and functions that are more family home related than say small to medium business related, is pleasant to see somebody else jump on the scene with the with the wallet, guys.

Mike Wieger  [44:01] 
So with your rig, you’re running how much power? You know, you’re john.

Kevin Schoonover  [44:06] 
I do not. That’s a good question.

Mike Wieger  [44:08] 
Because I thought it was a lot more than it was I was running an i three Dell optiplex I was like, geez, that thing’s gonna be pulling a lot. I put the meter on it. 2020 watts. And I mean, it’s not terrible. It’s not good by any means. Right? But it’s just two light bulbs.

Jim Collison  [44:23] 
Yeah, that’s horrible.

Mike Wieger  [44:24] 
That’s what I figure and so I had actually been playing around with virtualizing that and unbraid like, you know, with the, with all the hassle virtualization causes when you take out on raid and the whole internet goes out, like 20 watts isn’t really that bad. But I mean, I think it’s less than in Omaha, at least where we’re at the prices for energy are pretty cheap. It’s like $1 a month, I think to run that thing. not terrible.

Jim Collison  [44:45] 
Yeah, it’s not like an old Core i seven right, an old Zeon. Kevin, you sent me some memory for that back in the day. And I think it was a dual Zeon and that thing was like 470 watts.

Kevin Schoonover  [44:56] 
Oh, yeah. Johnny, Kool Kat, and those days we were all running down. Dell and HP workstations, all those things were tanks. Yeah. Huge, huge Zeon monsters with lots of very hot memory. And

Jim Collison  [45:08] 
I talked about that on the show here. And Kevin, I got a note from Kevin the next day. He’s like, Hey, I got some memory for you don’t don’t do anything, I will send it to you. And I think you sent me 64 gig in there and we fired that thing up and I could really only my tree hugging self could really only run that server for about a couple weeks. And I felt so guilty. I’m like, I can’t this can’t this doesn’t work. Now, later what I you know, start running a mining operation of GPUs. But one server at 470 I think was 470 something like that for 6470 watts, seven semi two hard drives and I still using my android box

Mike Wieger  [45:45] 
like five years ago. I think they were ranking enterprise drives. Yeah, I know. It was it was something I think I mentioned it and you’re like I have some extra drives and those are still running strong ones my parody desk and one still running.

Kevin Schoonover  [45:58] 
I always When I have those tend to be a little. That was when I had a friend working at WD and those he would always handpick the best engineering samples he got back that he felt comfortable giving away because some engineering samples get abused, pretty nasty. So those were always a good hand pick to kind of run great,

Jim Collison  [46:19] 
and then run it in five years strong. Kevin, I’ve always just appreciated your generosity to the to the community. You know, we’ve been we’ve been doing this now, I think I mentioned at the top of the show, we’ve been doing this together for 1011 years now. And I’ve just always appreciate your generosity. So thanks for that. And really, that mirrors the community here. Like I just have never, I’ve never been in a community that’s just so giving, and so willing to share and when people need things, it’s just like, Can I just ship it to you? Kind of basically or 20 bucks, you know, type deal. So I always appreciate that. So here’s a Mike Wieger trivia question for the evening. Oh, my first appearance on Home Gadget Geeks, what was the product that I was there to talk about and Jim barely knew me and allowed me to come on and talk about the wonders of this new product.

Mike Wieger  [47:05] 
Oh, man. I mean, I thought the typewriter right, it’s just been podcasting. It’s Jim’s a season podcaster No, I’m not any guesses

Kevin Schoonover  [47:17] 
it This was the launch of why I preferred Windows Phone for work, and how well it integrated with our Exchange Server at work. And I could have three or four calendars all together, which is easy to do now, but at the time, this was revolutionary stuff, this Windows Phone thing,

Mike Wieger  [47:38] 
which What year was that?

Kevin Schoonover  [47:40] 
Oh, boy, I’d have to go back and look, it’s alone. I’m trying to find the I’m even trying to find the shot to be probably 2012.

Kevin Schoonover  [47:49] 
might even be before that. It was probably 2007 2008. So

Jim Collison  [47:55] 
well. I’d be at home server show then because we we didn’t start here till 2010

Kevin Schoonover  [48:00] 
Now Thunder would have been right around there maybe in kind of time frame

Jim Collison  [48:04] 
that could have been a surface geeks thing to this was was here on the show. Okay, you keep talking, I’m gonna find the show.

Unknown Speaker  [48:12] 

Kevin Schoonover  [48:14] 
just a quick thing about untangle and Mikey talking about, you know, trying to save power. I may I don’t know if I can get this on the picture well, but I’m a big fan of these little small form factor HP and Dell makes a nice little one. This is HPS ultra. What do they call it a ultra small desktop enclosure. And I thought it would just be great if I could get two more Ethernet ports in that sucker. And I finally stumbled onto something that may come to fruition someday. I’m still working it out here but there is a company cbos one of them that makes a dual port Nick and get the right side of it here that fits in a mini PCI Connect So all these little guys have a slot for a wireless card. And this fits in that slot. Really the problem I’ve run into, and then you have a couple little cables here that go off to a nother little board. That is your back port out of the system. So you get this little guy hangs up the back of the system. Jim, can you show his screen?

Jim Collison  [49:30] 
I screen it his screen. Sorry that we’re sorry. Sorry. I was looking for the show. Sorry, no problem.

Kevin Schoonover  [49:36] 
You get this little dual port deal that goes out the back of the box. You’d want to take it off this and you’d probably have to modify it for one of these low profile Jesse’s

Mike Wieger  [49:44] 
gotcha. So it’s not sitting in a slot you would take off that bracket. It’s usually hanging external to the machine. Yep.

Kevin Schoonover  [49:50] 
Okay. And then this is the little, the little board that goes in the mini

Unknown Speaker  [49:57] 

Kevin Schoonover  [49:58] 
squat. The problem run into is like on the HPS this thing is packed so deep under other stuff, there’s no room to get the cables out. And the closest I’ve found is I’ve got a Dell 790 here that is appears to have room I might have to modify the motherboard a little bit to get enough space in the front there but I threw a link in the show notes for it is 25 bucks. So you know if Lenovo I haven’t tried every combination, obviously, but if you if you find some of these small boxes like this that have that slot for Wi Fi, which was right down on the board, and there’s some opening around it. This I think this is kind of a neat way to add two more ports to one of these little chasse ease and it makes a great firewall, you know, low power, small size, easy to work with. Definitely.

Jim Collison  [50:57] 
Okay, I have it. Thank you. So those are the show notes. Hold on. Let’s, let’s go. Okay, I think this is at home net. So this is funny. This is March 2 2013. And what are we talking about? Whole networking, like some of the same words you’ve been using seven years later, Kevin like, so this was you, Greg wells, Bill Pullman, Randy Phipps came on. We were doing roundtable discussions in those days. And we’ve done a four part series just on home networking, and everybody was bringing their home networking diagram. And Kevin, there is your hearse right there. Which it’s just like, this is awesome that we’ve diet, you know that we’ve collected this information over this length of time, right. This is seven years ago. And almost to the day in some regards. I mean, it’s February 27. This was June. I’m sorry, this was March. Third. It was met some is probably the march 1 by the time I got posted, but so we’re pretty close to being exactly so Seven years ago, and here we are talking about networking. Right? I mean, how cool is that? So, Kevin, you had your diagram? Yeah, by the way, I think you can get to this the average guy TV slash ht, because we call it home tech and those days. That’s right. h t 107. is I think what will get you there? But we had Kevin, you had your network bill listed out his network, which was cool when he put together his network and Greg diagrammed his network so how cool is that that

Mike Wieger  [52:33] 
that’s still out there is draw that Iowa thing I think Greg and the guy right above Greg use because that that one right there I think that’s a standard template cuz that’s how mines diagram that’s like the exact three column format mine and it’s probably maybe if was a thing back then,

Jim Collison  [52:47] 
Kevin, I looked for the Windows Phone reference and it must have been something we talked about post show or at the end of the show or something like that, but that’s a really good show notes for this. This One of seven I think this may have been in the days when Andrew put these together for me he would and Morris came on here for a lot of years and was was doing that as well.

Kevin Schoonover  [53:08] 
So my drawing is definitely a Vizio drawing it was able to find most of my logos and images and every

Jim Collison  [53:14] 
how many of these things let’s see. I wonder if I can if I need a bigger Yeah, hold on. Let me see if I can blow this thing up here. Oh, wait, the thing goes away too. Can you now? I’m not gonna mess with it. Kevin, as you look at this thing, how many is any of this still in place?

Unknown Speaker  [53:36] 
To the printers are

Jim Collison  [53:38] 
okay. I do see I see two HP micro servers, their

Kevin Schoonover  [53:45] 
micro servers today actually I think I’ve got an IO safe in there and that is still running.

Jim Collison  [53:50] 
Okay. I see it in 40 Allen and a 36 L. Yeah, those are those are

Kevin Schoonover  [53:55] 
sitting on the bench. Still have them

Jim Collison  [54:00] 
You took mine to recycle. My end 40 I went to recycle. So good blast from the past. Absolutely. Absolutely good blast from the past. Okay, back to you. What else? What’s next?

Kevin Schoonover  [54:13] 
Um, you know, so I enjoy participating on forums, helping people out. Sonos the speaker forum is one I spend a lot of time on and the majority of the problems people have with Sonos is their network, not

Kevin Schoonover  [54:34] 
anything to do with Sonos, it’s more about networking.

Kevin Schoonover  [54:38] 
And I stumbled across We’ve had a few of them over the years, but this is a package for testing Wi Fi, and it is very robust, gives you good ideas of signal strength. You can put it on a laptop and walk around the house with it. It’s good to have a maybe an external USB Wi Fi connection so you get like the latest greatest performance because you want it to match what you’re broadcasting from your wireless access points. But this is what I recommend to folks who have networking issues that are trying to resolve are they having channel conflicts with the neighbors are they running into interference and you know, in the thing I commonly find is everybody believes just because they can connect to their wireless that their wireless is is really good and it’s not necessarily really good. Which brings me to and I don’t want to beat up on mesh too much. I think I’ve played it with some mesh systems. I haven’t used them in full production here at home. But I’m I continually run into more and more issue I’ll pick on orbea and euro and those guys those good products are great for coverage. You know, if you have trouble getting Wi Fi signal all over your house. Those guys are great for getting Wi Fi signal all over your house. But they they have problems with throughput. They have problems with latency. And frankly, the router functions in them tend to not impress me too much. And especially with like iroh. I occasionally run into things where home automation hubs like the Philips hub or Jim, what’s the cameras you were using? That had their own hub with it?

Jim Collison  [56:34] 
Well, that I’ve ring in the in the back, they are z moto.

Kevin Schoonover  [56:41] 
Yes, yes. So their hub would do this weird thing where it would try to connect to every one of your heroes because it thought it was a router by itself because they kind of distribute the router function. So I just have run into Yep, with mesh. You can get great coverage. You You can get Wi Fi all over your house. But in the end, you tend to, you know, is it do you get the bandwidth you expect out of it? Do you get the performance? The devices all talk to each other. So commonly, the end result is a to get best performance out of your mesh network, you should really hardware each of the units. Well, if I’m going to hardware each of the units, why don’t I just go with regular wireless access point? Because Because if cabling and no cabling can be an issue, cabling can be a problem. And of course wireless access points, you know, have come way down in price, you know, used to be good wireless access points for a couple hundred bucks. Then they dip down into the 150. They hovered about 125 for a long time. I bought into D link a few years ago out of the seeing their ac 1200s were quite a few years ago now they get down to like 89 bucks, so I bought three of them. And the other thing that pushed me over, Jim to your comments earlier about handoffs, and that They, like other people had offered up to their central Wi Fi function for free. So you could use their application product for free and have it all running. So I went that route, when it through the notes here too is if if I was jumping off so been happy with the link, although I just want to add a couple of wireless access points and I realized that it’s a learning curve, you got to kind of jump back into their controller and kind of if you’re not doing it every day, it’s kind of a little difficult to work with. But if I were looking at jumping into wireless access points today, ubiquity is a safe choice. Real easy, safe choice. A lot of people use it easy to work with. But if I was testing today, I think I’d give the TP link guys a shot. I’ve heard a lot of good stuff about their wireless access points. ac 1350 their EAP to 25 sells for $59 apiece and they offer

Kevin Schoonover  [59:06] 
in on the

Kevin Schoonover  [59:10] 
discord site we talked a little bit about extending Wi Fi outside.

Kevin Schoonover  [59:17] 
Let me see if I can find it here. There it is.

Kevin Schoonover  [59:21] 
For $69 they offer a outdoor version that is all sealed and is weather resistant, weatherproof, durable. So you know at at if you can run the network cables and if you have the placing for it and it’s not too hard to place this stuff out and you can kind of get creative with running through walls and through attics and such. I’m a big fan of wireless access points. And I just wanted to point this one out because it was very tempting recently, I was thinking maybe it was time to move off the D link and under something else, but it’s been so stable and so good. And frankly, I just picked up a couple of used models the exact same access point for 25 bucks apiece. So, you know, I can have a little buffer inventory there. And unlike the rest of these guys, the the software package for it, their EAP controller is a free centralized controller. So throw it on a PC or put it in a virtual machine and you can be up and running and that manages all your handoffs and and such

Unknown Speaker  [1:00:38] 
for folks who may be

Mike Wieger  [1:00:40] 
go ahead net well, so here’s my question I just because mainly cuz I just thought there there’s been some rumblings through like the network community that you know, the immune Mimosa multiuser MIMO is more of kind of a marketing ploy now because multiuser my mom actually doesn’t work very well. compared to regular my mo Have you have you seen it? That’s true. While you’ve been doing your research here, like are companies charging more for a new memo devices than just standard by now?

Kevin Schoonover  [1:01:08] 
I at one point they were it was like so all this kind of gets back to whose chipset you’re using. So almost all of these inexpensive products are Qualcomm chipsets. And if you look at what TP link sells, it’s likely kind of the standard Qualcomm design. So initially, there were two different chipsets and to get the upper end of the features, it was more money. Now I think it’s just kind of rolled down into being their standard from a price point. Okay,

Mike Wieger  [1:01:38] 
so you’re not overpaying for for a feature that’s not the best anyway.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:01:42] 
Yeah, I don’t think so. anymore. But yeah, it is a valid point because initially people really, you know, the, the, the interest around or the features of that were kind of blown out of proportion, maybe was very alluring to have this. You had to sit back and go, Well, wait a minute, my device that’s connecting to it has to support the same thing. Right to be able to take advantage of it. And does my new laptop have that will my new laptop habit? So I think that just kind of turned into a bit of uncertainty around the the technology. They’re

Mike Wieger  [1:02:19] 

Jim Collison  [1:02:21] 
Kevin can go back to this device that you threw up here. Can I just so it says Download here? Yep. This is a Yeah, this is just the software right? This is the Wi Fi analyzer. Yep. So available for Windows 10. Can I just put this like on my Surface Pro and in US it because it’s a Wi Fi device? I’m assuming you. It needs to be on Wi Fi. And then you’re going around and it’s measuring things, right? Absolutely. Free Software, free download and free software freedom. Why wouldn’t I have this piece of software on my Surface Pro

Kevin Schoonover  [1:02:50] 
to I can’t think of any reason.

Jim Collison  [1:02:53] 
You kind of breezed through it and I was like whoa, wait a minute. I was just helping somebody in the stream yard. Facebook group they were their video was stuttering and I was a little sensitive to that after a couple of weeks ago, when my video was stuttering. And so I said, you know, okay, have you checked? Like, what’s your up and down and they dropped a speed speed test in there and they were getting plenty. And I said, Okay, let’s check the just check your CPU utilization, right? And now they were they were on a Mac, they were fine. And I didn’t want to say like, because I knew they were Wi Fi. And I wasn’t going to be that guy that’s like, yeah, you can’t do this over Wi Fi. But, you know, I needed to be that guy. So good timing on this, this Now this would have helped them. But you know, hey, go put the software on a piece of equipment and then, you know, run it. But this could be a cool little tool. This is the first time I’ve seen this of kind of seeing, especially if you’re in a big house in on reset. McCabe talks about this all the time, right. He’s got dead zones. He’s got walls to get through. He’s got concrete foundations. He’s always constant. kind of thinking about, you know, how do I get the right access points where I need to get them, you could walk around with this, right? And it would tell you what the signal strength is. And it looks pretty simple.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:04:11] 
It’s very simple. It’ll tell you signal strength. You, there’s lots of graphs and things down in the bottom. And frankly, this is one where I have had cases where, like I say, people complain about how something works. And they know they got great Wi Fi and got great Wi Fi everywhere. And you get them to try this and walk around the house with it. And they go, Oh, wait, my wife is not so great. The other thing you will find with this that a lot of people don’t realize is one of the biggest walls or deterrence to Wi Fi is the human body. So if you’re standing between your access point and your laptop, it will block quite a bit of signal. And you quickly find people say well, it as I was walking around the house, it kept changing. Well, where’s the Where’s your access point? Where’s your router? Where are you Where’s your laptop?

Jim Collison  [1:05:02] 
So you Yeah, you might want to make sure you have direct line that you’re not in the direct line. Right?

Kevin Schoonover  [1:05:08] 
Yeah. Think think about where you are and where and where that’s Yeah, that’s,

Jim Collison  [1:05:12] 
I’m gonna, I’m gonna this weekend. I love to, to install these kinds of things. I have one you have a bitdefender router and it’s the Wi Fi for the house. And to be honest, we don’t have a ton of stuff. That’s Wi Fi. That’s mission critical. It’s our phones. It’s the Amazon devices. It’s the few it’s the couple of the Google devices that we have. kind of think we probably have more than that but nothing where it matters. Although when the Wi Fi went down the other day, you know, got really cold and then our our up speed went to crap. Alexa, whoops, the Amazon device.

Unknown Speaker  [1:05:50] 
Sorry, go back to that a number of Amazon

Unknown Speaker  [1:05:54] 
frames, the echo loop in the nebula soundbar fire

Mike Wieger  [1:05:58] 
Just wait. My echo auto in my car. heart goes off whenever anyone on my podcast now it didn’t used to affect me in a car. But now it does with that go on to

Jim Collison  [1:06:06] 
Amazon, okay. But Sarah was trying to turn some of the lights on and off. And this goes back to the hub attack conversation that we had or stop some music and man, Alexa was just I’m sorry, the Amazon device was just not responding very well. And I never put two and two together that it was because we had terrible upload speed. And so I was having to go out and of course that that was being restricted, right. So she was she was telling me like, gosh, I was had to yell at it. And I was like, okay, that’s kind of weird. Well, now we know.

Mike Wieger  [1:06:41] 
And the other cool thing about ubiquity that they have built into their controller, something that I run so I use the ubiquity controller to control my home and to other people who I have set up in their homes. And they actually have Wi Fi, which is kind of a it’s in beta, but what it does is at a certain time, and you can do it daily weekly, monthly, it will do kind of an N, it’ll analyze the area, right? See what other access points what other Wi Fi networks are open and using what channels, and it will actually adjust your channels to be the best for that, you know, you can run it daily. So I run mine daily at 3am. Hey, check it because you know, around here, I think everyone, all of my neighbors must have their set to auto, because everyone’s channels are changing all the time. So I have mine, just set 3am haste, do your scan, try and figure it out, do the best. And you can actually give you a log of, hey, this day, I changed it to this channel. This day, I changed it to this channel, it’s kind of nice to see. So most days, I’m at 100% sometimes the only change in the five gigahertz which actually surprises me. I don’t know why it needs to change five gigahertz, I would think that there’s so many channels there that I wouldn’t have any problems. But it does a pretty good job and you can have it only use one six and 11 like you should for 2.4 if you’re only use 116 11 if no one’s told you that yet, when you’re out there, changing your life. But it’s great, especially for me for the people’s houses who are not in every day. I don’t know. So those little tools do help you monitor it in the slightest. So I agree ubiquity is a fantastic choice. I use them for almost everything you guys do. I switch back to untangle for the routing features because it’s better than their USG. But, but for access points, I have to have the AC pros in my home and my house is pretty small. But I did it just because I can and I kind of I needed one in our bedroom. Actually, it’s in our bathroom because I was getting really bad Wi Fi in the bathroom and you can’t have bad Wi Fi in the bathroom. It’s just that just doesn’t work. No. So I installed literally there’s an access point in the bathroom. Because we needed one. So it was there wasn’t any coverage on that side of the house. But yeah, those little tools in there. I know who said Wi Fi man. That’s a great little app for Android. That ubiquity puts out.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:08:52] 
Yeah, no, there’s some in gym.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:08:55] 
I like that app, because it’s a Windows 10 app so you can throw it on the laptop. up in that, but yeah, there are some really good

Kevin Schoonover  [1:09:03] 
Android based apps,

Mike Wieger  [1:09:04] 
you will not find one for iOS because they do not give you the data you need from from the Wi Fi network card.

Jim Collison  [1:09:12] 
Well, it is Surface Pro three sitting around that would be perfect for

Unknown Speaker  [1:09:16] 
that. Perfect for that. Yeah, I kind of troubleshooting the great.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:09:20] 
One more just a ubiquity product that doesn’t get used a lot. And I like them for a specifically reason. These air cubes are, they’re a different product line within ubiquity. So they’re not part of the unified family. So they actually use their un un m s, software management control function. These are AC devices, they support POV so they look a lot like you know, something you could put on a table or a shelf. But they have to be hard wired but you know, you’re gonna have to run powered To a mesh device anyway. And I just like the idea of these being able to you could move them around the house and they don’t look awful. You don’t have to mount them to a wall or a ceiling like a traditional wireless access point, they have a couple of Ethernet ports off the back and one of those offers POV pass through. So if you had a camera nearby that you wanted to run off from that as well. And these guys, the AC version sells for like $79. But oddly enough, Woo seems to end up with them for 39 bucks apiece on probably a quarterly basis for whatever reason. So just kind of another twist out there. Different form factor, slightly different function. Yeah, a little bit of a different twist on the controller aspect of it. I think I threw in the notes as well. There’s a go Yeah, in the notes, I threw a link for comparing unifying air tube just from a management functionality point of view.

Jim Collison  [1:11:04] 
Kevin if we were on our discord we have an online deal section in our discord I know a lot of these end up over at the home server show forums reset forums now would would that show up with with a deal like this show up from you because I know you’re the master at this do you post them there when that when they show

Kevin Schoonover  [1:11:24] 
up? Actually the last time this was up on route I did pop it up on the on the discord site. Okay?

Mike Wieger  [1:11:31] 
Yep, good, right. You also got me my 20 my four port gigabit network card you posted down I was a great snack for 25 bucks.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:11:38] 
those are those are you know, I keep too much crap around here but I always seem to go through things like that when I’m playing with stuff or working with things and it’s it’s just handy and especially a good I think that was an Intel if I’m not listening for 25 bucks is pretty hard to beat.

Jim Collison  [1:11:57] 
I haven’t got some old school. I think it was you that Did it but I got some old school Craftsman screwdrivers for 20 bucks. Yes, that was you, right? Yeah. And actually I got them for a buddy of mine. He was getting married and he has he has no tools. None. And he was trying to put together this arch thing for his own wedding. And he was just having a hell of a time. And I was like, Dude, don’t get me too is like no, I don’t have any tools like one eels don’t own. They don’t own any tools. We put

Unknown Speaker  [1:12:25] 
them on our podcast over here.

Jim Collison  [1:12:29] 
But, so I bought them. There was 20 bucks. And so I picked those up as a as an early wedding gift for him. So Kevin, thanks for proposal. Speaking of deals, if I was going to do 10 gig on the cheap, or there’s some things I could do. I mean, how do I do today? 10 gig on the cheap

Kevin Schoonover  [1:12:47] 
on so kind of depends on you finding finding the points. So mellanox 10 gig Ethernet cards that are the SFP so you didn’t The transceivers for them, those go for 3035 bucks on eBay kind of all day long. They’re usually branded Dell or HP, but there’s plenty, you can go into mellanox and get the latest firmware to turn them back into a mellanox card.

Jim Collison  [1:13:15] 
Okay, so those and then the device that Uyghurs already bought the set for 75 bucks,

Kevin Schoonover  [1:13:22] 
if you need one of those, if you’re into it, so that’d be the switch on the other end, and you’d want to switch with some 10 gig ports on depending on what you needed. So the the Aruba that I threw up there. Obviously, one of the drawbacks is that’s an enterprise switch. So it’s going to be a little loud, although that once it settles down after boot up, it’s not too terribly loud. And that gives you 410 gig SFP ports. So then you get down to distance How far away are you running devices will affect what you want to do. That that net gear switch that we talked about way earlier in the show, that could be a really costly The effective way to jump into 10 gig as well because it has to 10 gig ports on it. One of them SF P and one, rj 45. So then it comes down to what kind of card do you have in the PC some of these server boards from as rock rack or a Soos or gigabit come with a 10 gig port down on them. Usually it’s SFP. So you kind of have to play it around a little bit, you can save a bunch of money on the switch and then end up spending way too much money on Ethernet cards. I will throw out just to be careful when it comes to 10 gig Ethernet, yes, when it comes to 10 gig Ethernet don’t make any assumptions. I tore apart an old server one time had a couple of 10 gig cards in it. And I thought, Hey, I’ll just keep those around in case I don’t want to play with 10 gig on them. They were older Intel cards and drivers stopped at the server today. thousand three years somehow interesting. Okay, so we get so used to grabbing any Gigabit Ethernet card plugging it in, and it works with any operating system. Some of the early 10 gig stuff doesn’t work with anything anymore. So even Linux, there might be some Linux variants form, that’s probably more likely. But always, always kind of go through the numbers and see, see what you need to do. The other thing about 10 gig, I mentioned q logic, q logic is selling some switches and they have some very affordable uncluttering iq logic, cue nap. So cue nap has some very affordable switches that support 10 gig can be an easy way to jump into things there as well.

Unknown Speaker  [1:15:46] 
All right,

Jim Collison  [1:15:47] 
I sense I smell Uyghurs spending money this weekend. It’s it’s not good.

Mike Wieger  [1:15:52] 
I know. So I was just actually looking at it. Right now I’m looking at over because I was going back to the viewings, because I was doing the same thing you just told Not to do, I was actually going on eBay for just any 10 gig card for the main machine here and upgrade to go along with the new 10 gigabit switch. Trying to add up see how much of the toy would cost but now I got to make sure those will actually work.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:16:15] 
mellanox is a pretty safe choice. Their families are numbered. So the Connect x three is a couple years old few years old, but that’s still really well supported. And we

Jim Collison  [1:16:25] 
just we have a link for that in the show notes.

Mike Wieger  [1:16:28] 
I’m just shocked at the price on the rubezh on how low they I mean, there’s a couple on eBay if you filter it by zero to $100. There are quite a few and I just did POV even. I mean those are POV managed switches and with the 10 gig in there for 69 bucks is the one I was looking at.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:16:45] 
Yep, so the the S 3500 is a little newer. I have an S 2500 use for a lab. Switch down the basement. works quite well and you know it It’s a it’s surprising the prices that low on them. Yeah,

Mike Wieger  [1:17:04] 
yeah. So I mean, so you said that some of their members had to trick it and say, hey, you’re those 10 gig ports are not uplinked anymore. So can it switch though at 10 gigabit with those four, okay? You could have 410 gigabit devices around and it’ll switch at that speed.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:17:18] 
Okay, full full. Yeah, blue is full non blocking on those because they’re traditionally used for stacking. So, the 10 gig ports, the whole switch is non blocking. But if you go that’s a new word for me what is non blocking mean? Non blocking means that every port can support its full bandwidth. almost almost all your new switches are full non blocking throughout. Back in the olden days when you opened up a switch and there were lots of different chips in there. Sometimes if you had ports on certain set of ports for on one chip, though, the set of ports where another chip, and there was linkage between those you’d run into basically throttling issues or you wouldn’t be able to see full bandwidth across the switch. So if you loaded down all the ports, had stuff plugged into all of them, you would not get full throughput on all of them. Got it?

Unknown Speaker  [1:18:18] 
All right, Sarah wheels are turning.

Jim Collison  [1:18:20] 
Sarah came around the corner just a few minutes ago. She’s like, are you podcasting? And I’m like, Yeah, she’s like, you’re really quiet. Let’s say well, I don’t have a lot to say on this one. Kevin, let me I will ask you this question. If we did a home server show meetup today, we haven’t. course I haven’t done those in a while. But you always used to bring some gear to those. If we are going to have one today. What would you bring? What kind of gear would you bring to the home server show meetup.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:18:50] 
If I was showing up today, I would probably bring so still a fan of little micro servers. HP is just going through transition, the microserver Gen 10 was not as popular as the gen eight, they went to an AMD chip in it and they dropped the ILO function from it. But I think it’s still a very good performance box for the price you pay. And actually what I’ve been playing with on that is so underrated. I always end up thinking of unraised as an easy way to run lots of drives, I want to run a whole bunch of drives. But the nice thing with these little micro servers is there’s four hard drive bays on the front and there’s a 16 or a by eight slot on the motherboard. So what I’ve been playing within the the cheapest license for unbraid is the is the six drive. So what I have in there is four hard drives, a m dot two NVMe SSD, and then another SATA SSD so too sad SSD or sad SSD NVMe SSD in that slot and then four drives up front. That’s my six drives. And they’re just playing around with that seeing what the performance looks like what it feels like. In that would be one that it would bring to that. If you flip that picture back up again if we if we’re doing this, so they just introduced the gen 10 plus, which they’re going back to Intel for the chipset comes with the Zeon chip. The hard drives are mounted the instead of vertically, they’re horizontal now, so this box instead of being nine inches tall, it’s four inches tall, so it’s a tiny little server. They pulled the power supply out of it uses an external power supply now, pricing is going to be higher because they went back to putting the ILO chip in there for remote access. But don’t have one of these yet. But there you kind of look at the back of it. It’s quality Ethernet built in And they use the really good Intel chip. So this could be a really neat box for somebody who you have a small office. They want to run like an untangle in it with backup software and other things to put it together as one complete system. Could be a nice little virtualization box. I’m also thinking these might, you know, back towards the end of the gen eight hp. A lot of guys were using that as a VMware training, you know, home lab kind of deal. I think this could get you back into kind of a good VMware home lab, because it’ll have 32 Giga memory possible. Little limited on disk space. So you have to kind of make your choices wisely there. But it could be good support from that point of view. You put so you could put some big spinners in there too, right? Yeah. Yep. If you wanted to. I mean, you could do 12 or 14 terabyte. If you do it that way, right. filled up with big drives soar in there. What’s Do you know what these are retailing for right now. They haven’t Not started shipping yet in the list prices were really high as $700 something like that. And traditionally we’re used to micro servers being in the three to 400 kind of range. So we’ll have to see what the pricing comes out.

Jim Collison  [1:22:14] 
Yeah, I was I was thinking 1000 when you were the way you were talking so

Kevin Schoonover  [1:22:19] 
I think one of the higher end units of these fully loaded with memory will probably be pushing close to a grand

Jim Collison  [1:22:24] 
okay. Yeah, I want to start putting drives and other pieces in there. Right. We were running a little short on time, even though you can podcast forever. I do try to keep these to about an hour 20. Kevin, anything else you want to throw in there?

Kevin Schoonover  [1:22:40] 
Not not offhand. I threw in a link to one of my favorite software companies Paragon. They still have their set of free things you can get from them there. If you if you prefer a traditional backup and recovery kind of package. They have that available yet. The one I haven’t played with yet, if you see on the screen there is something called image mounter. It was kind of put together for it, Help Desk kind of folks to be able to grab up images off laptops, and mount them on another system. So if you had the user had a crash system and you had a backup of it, you could grab that and run it as a VM. The rescue kit is free, that includes some some of their file recovery products. And then the good old partition manager that they’ve offered for a lot of years they have a community version of that. So if you run into issues with partition management functions, and

Jim Collison  [1:23:42] 
these all free community, their community additions are free. Everything is free here.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:23:47] 
Everything on this page is free. Yeah, they still have a lot of software they sell. And for people who dabble in Max, kind of a mixed world of Mac on these were the guys who I always found had a product that would let you run a Mac formatted drives or Mac file systems on Windows PCs. So I’m not seeing that right now. But they always had something like that.

Jim Collison  [1:24:11] 
How would you rate their backup and recovery versus an A Cronus? Or the Mac? Or ease us is one of those we’ve been working with the $30 solution. Well, would you super simple by the way about how would you rate this the the Paragon,

Kevin Schoonover  [1:24:26] 
a very, very functional, you can back up to an image, you can back up just a regular file store, you can turn an image into a VM. So if you want to make it portable and take it other places, my big issue with these guys and I say this with all due respect, is there a German based company, so the user’s manual for the backup and recovery software is 175 pages.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:24:51] 
So there can be a little learning curve with it. That’s great.

Jim Collison  [1:24:57] 
You’d expect it right. Yeah, you

Kevin Schoonover  [1:24:58] 
have to work I’ve dealt with these guys for a lot of years. You just expect that from its greats precision.

Jim Collison  [1:25:06] 
Right? Well, Kevin, thanks for that’s very thorough. I would expect nothing less. I think you may you may be close to the record setter for number of times on Home Gadget Geeks non regular host hey, yeah, look from Apple jackets, i t shirt or something? I think you got one of those too. So Well, like I said earlier, Kevin, I’ve appreciated your willingness to be a part of this community. You know, you start doing these things and you have no idea the kind of the impact over time it’s going to have. And it’s just amazing to me, we’ve been doing this as a community for at least a decade, a little bit longer for some of some of us in there. And it’s to really appreciate your willingness to share and to come on and keep coming on and and to be a big part of this community. being so generous, so So again, thanks for coming on and being really, really helpful out there not just with deals, but with parts and how to get them and where to get them. And what’s the best place to get it. I’m sure Wieger wears you out

Mike Wieger  [1:26:14] 
a little bit a little bit. I’ll just say you know how interested I am because if I get really quiet towards the end, it’s because I got three different sharp shopping carts already full. I’ve got some research pages opens like I’m already like all man, everything you’ve said tonight has been right up my alley of something I’ve been looking into. It’s a it was such good information, really appreciate it.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:26:33] 
That’s fun, I enjoy.

Kevin Schoonover  [1:26:36] 
It’s kind of that knowledge transfer, helping people learn. And, you know, I think if you help folks figure out where to get information and how to do things themselves, it helps them out and they can help other people out. So it’s just, it is a community and that’s what I have always enjoyed about this group.

Jim Collison  [1:26:54] 
Looking at that old home tech 107 when we did those kind of round tables, I need to pull that back. I need To that Mike we is we think about maybe in the late summer early fall get some topics and just say you know, you know storage and networking and maybe good just to come in and have folks explain their home networks that’d be a ton of fun Yeah, yeah I know that we should we should resurrect that again and, and in pull that together So Kevin, thanks for coming. A couple reminders as we kind of wrap things up here. One is Don’t forget, tweet out IC Doc, USA all one word at IC doc USA. Let them know you’re a fan of the show. Make sure you copy me and Jay Coulson on it. You can send them anything. A few of you did that during the show. Tony want to thank you for doing that. Joe got that done. Mike did it as well. still not too late for folks that are on here live if you want to do that before the end of the night that maybe we could do some interesting things with them. So appreciate you. Getting out there. If it’s after the fact to send it when you have some time. Appreciate you doing that and Getting that over to him You never know what kind of thing how that’s going to make we mentioned the discord group so the average guy TV slash discord will get you in there if you’re like, Oh, where are these amazing deals? Well, they’re in the show notes so make sure you go to the average slash hgG 434 for this show, they’ll be out there and you can get them from there. I want to thank everybody who supports us on Patreon the average guy if you want to do that the average slash Patreon you know if I do a deal with icy dock they won’t be able to necessarily provide all the all the parts and I’ll need to buy some of those so your support through Patreon helps me do that and appreciate that as well. Remember, you can send us an email Jim at the average guy TV TV I mentioned you can track me down on twitter at Jay Collison. Mike what’s your Twitter at Wieger tech at Wieger tech this easy. Kevin Are you on your on your

Kevin Schoonover  [1:28:54] 
Twitter I never remember my Twitter though. I think it’s scoon 1979 if I’m not mistaken.

Jim Collison  [1:29:00] 
I think let’s let’s get that really fast because I know you are tweeted before the show. scoon doggy night. There you go. 1979 There you go. And so you can follow us all that way if you want to get that done. Don’t forget the average guy TV both web and media hosting powered by Maple Grove partners get secure, reliable, high speed hosting from people that you know and you trust speaking of high speed Christians been upgrading the infrastructure there and Maple Grove is now going to have a live failover of sorts. And so that’s an enterprise that just keeps getting bigger and bigger. You can say you are on it when it was just Christian has dad and plans as little as $10 a month. A great way to get it done. Check out Maple Grove. Want to thank you for joining us tonight. Don’t forget, come out and join us live sometime if you’re maybe you’re a regular listener to the podcast. And if you’ve got this far, you Wow. like wow, you’re the real deal. Seriously, come join us live. This is it. kind of fun Thursday nights 8pm Central nine Eastern out of the average slash live. We love to have you the regulars are out there and nobody will everybody will welcome. And so we love to have your thanks to Tony and Joe and Alex and Ron, and Tony and Brian. And Brian Ryan was out here a little bit earlier by the way, they’re coming back on Ryan and Bob, coming back on here in a couple weeks after the big fail. When thank you for joining us tonight with that. If you’re listening live, stay around for the post show. With that. We’ll say goodbye.

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